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I lost!
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 20:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default I lost!


Like the title suggests I lost and am in a mild state of shock duly because I have no idea what happened. My orks vs marines, me with mainly troops and my opponent three sledgehammer units in the form of Malius Calgar with honour guard, chaplain with some other super amazing elite choice, a squad of termies and all the other space marine trimmings for 2,000 pts. I had nothing left by the third turn.

so hear are my questions

when a unit of ork nobs charges and everyone your fighting gets to hit you first and your waaagh banner falls do you still get the bonus?

Is it really worth taking nobs agents one with a higher initiative?

Can you take a nob mob without all the extras and get anything out of them?

This defeat has made me somewhat bitter to th whole game of 40k.

Displeased

KQD
__________________
-Disney: He's the puppet master, both our damnation and salvation. He rewards our successes and punishes us for our hubris (often in subtle but horrible ways). I suggest we do our best not to anger him, he is the greatest asset to our campaign and potentially the most fearsome foe we'll ever face.
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 21:21   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: I lost!

You've lost one game and you are already bitter about 40K as a whole? Sure you've chosen the right game, then? I'm asking this because there's nothing worse than playing an opponent who hates to lose, and gets bitter about it - and, face it, you WILL net your fair share of losses. Main focus should be the game itself - you can still have a good time while losing, and if both you and your opponent share this attitude, you're most likely guaranteed to have a good time - no matter if you win or lose. After all, it is a complete waste of a couple of hours of your and your opponents time if both of you play a game you don't enjoy - you because you're losing, and your opponent because you're sulking (and vice versa)

With that out of the way, let's deal with your problems:

Terminators are generally a problem for Orks, because their 2+ save can be a real pain. The only solutions I can think off on top of my head are Burnas on the charge (do not try this if you're dealing with Assault Terminators with twin Lightning Claws... bad idea), or a Big Mek with a SAG (large blast, AP 2 sounds about right). Option #3 would be a simple "swamp 'em, lads!" with number of attacks - Sluggas for "normal" Termies and Thunderhammer/stormshield Assault Termies, and Shootas for Twin Lightning Claw Termies (with that number of shots, something is bound to drop).

Using Nobs against either kind of Termies is a bad bad BAD idea - S8 insta-kills your Nobs, so you better leave your Nobs out of there...

Onto your questions - a short overview of your army wouldn't have hurt, but I'll do what I can...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Diz
when a unit of ork nobs charges and everyone your fighting gets to hit you first and your waaagh banner falls do you still get the bonus?
No, you don't. But the real question here should be - why did you remove the model with the Banner in the first place?

Quote:
Is it really worth taking nobs agents one with a higher initiative?
I honestly had troubles understand what you wanted to say here, until I realised you meant "against", not "agents" :P
Answer: Depends. If they insta-kill you, no, it is not worth taking (i.e. Dreadnoughts). Against units that ignore armor saves (i.e. Banshees), it depends on their number of attacks and Strength, but it is generally better to charge than to be charged (especially for Orks), and with proper exploitation of wound allocation, you have a decent chance.
Quote:
Can you take a nob mob without all the extras and get anything out of them?
Well... not really. First of all, Boys are cheaper per attack than bare-bone Nobs - for a single Nob, you get three Boys, which kinda is a no-brainer. Also, you completely miss out on wound allocation and the weapon options of the Nobs (I love Big Choppas!).

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 13 Sep 2009, 22:30   #3 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: I lost!

You think that's bad? I got tabled on Turn 1 with me playing Nob Bikerz!
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 00:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: I lost!

Quote:
This defeat has made me somewhat bitter to th whole game of 40k.

Displeased
Give up on 40k. You want to play a game that is balanced heavily in your favor if you field a totally unbalanced and ridiculous list where you are assured of an unbeatable list. This game isn't it.

Wow. You are bitter because you played against a fellow who employed superior tactics, had a better knowledge of the game and knew what it took to beat Orks. As to your questions. Why would you go against SS/TH Termies with a Nob squad? Why would you remove your banner first? Why would you not take PKs, Flamers, Big Choppas and Painboy in your Nob squad? Don't answer ... I know already. It's rhetorical.

I feel for you Zenai. But inside I'm laughing. I took out a Nob Biker squad and a BW on the weekend on my second turn ( playing at 1250 ) because I rolled 6s for my Deathstrike and Manticore and I hardly scattered. This was sweet revenge for a previous loss with my 'craptastic' force. The dice gods are fickle.
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 00:15   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: I lost!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
You think that's bad? I got tabled on Turn 1 with me playing Nob Bikerz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody's home
I feel for you Zenai. But inside I'm laughing.
There's nothing wrong with playing Nob Bikerz provided you play them for the right reasons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 00:31   #6 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: I lost!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus the Games Developer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
You think that's bad? I got tabled on Turn 1 with me playing Nob Bikerz!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody's home
I feel for you Zenai. But inside I'm laughing.
There's nothing wrong with playing Nob Bikerz provided you play them for the right reasons
I play it because I have only 20 models to move around.
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 02:38   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: I lost!

When fighing marines, you have a few good options. Looted wagons with their ap 3 weaponry is great against normal tacticals, and the big mek with shokk attack gun is wonderful against TEQ. You can also run deffkoptas with either rokkits or kustom blasters to get through armor.

It is generally unwise to attack anything that instant kills nobs with nobs. Space marines have armor, but you have numbers. Focus on just plain boyz with a nob and PK and you should be fine, with any of the above suggestions. Nobs are not powerhouses like terminators, don't treat them as such.
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Wins Ties Losses
Tau 19 10 8 (Hybrid army)
Orks 15 3 2 (Mekboy and weirdboy based force with boyz, deffkoptas and walkers)
Chaos12 2 4 (Infantry based chaos)
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 16:35   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: I lost!

I'm bitter more because everything I had was taking out by one of his squads just the one and as for taking away the banner he did that not me. I haven't played 5ed yet. In my large mob of 40 boyz and only 8 of them got to attack.

I'm sorry I'm far too tierd to make any of this make sense. I'll type up both of the armie lists by tomorrow.

KQD



__________________
-Disney: He's the puppet master, both our damnation and salvation. He rewards our successes and punishes us for our hubris (often in subtle but horrible ways). I suggest we do our best not to anger him, he is the greatest asset to our campaign and potentially the most fearsome foe we'll ever face.
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Old 14 Sep 2009, 17:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: I lost!

What annoys me more is the changes to Frag grenades, honestly. They really only benefited Marines. Eldar used to be the only ones who could still fight in Initiative order when charging into cover, and they paid for it. Now Marines can happily charge into trees and still get to strike first against non-MEQ armies, and they don't even have to buy grenades any more.

If your opponent is cheesing out on Special Characters and Terminators, remember that Orks do have ranged weapons as well. I played Deathwing for a long time, and I can tell you that I frequently had to rely on the enemy charging me. Terminators aren't that fast and they aren't terribly impressive at shooting for their cost. Particularly if they are being kitted out for survivability (lots of Lightning Claws and Storm Shields/Thunder Hammers). I love seeing a lot of Lightning Claws in a big unit of Terminators. I just run away and plunk at them until they start rolling 1s. Even better if they are in Power Armor. I think it is very important when playing an army like Orks or Chaos Space Marines to recognize that some units want to be charged. They are durable enough to soak hits, and they hit hard even without the extra attack from charging. Even worse are those with Counter-attack. Even as Orks, it is better just to bide your time and shoot them until they are weak enough to finish off.
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Old 15 Sep 2009, 10:05   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: I lost!

Here are the lists of what was played

Space marines 2000pts

HQ

Marreus Calgar 265pts

Chaplain – terminator armour, storm bolter 130pts

Honour squad 5 strong, chapter banner, champion with relic blade 225pts

Honour squad 6 strong all with relic blades 310 pts

Troops

Scouts 5 strong with sniper rifles and heavy bolter – Tellion 140pts

Tactical squad 10 strong las/plas 185pts

Elite

Terminators 5 strong 200pts

Dreadnought twin-linked heavy bolter 110pts

Fast attack

Assault squad 10 strong 190pts

Heavy support

Devastator squad 5 strong 3 missiles launchers 1 plasma cannon 170pts

Predator auto cannon, heavy bolters ???pts


Just a few things I’m sketchy about

Marreus Calgar and his magic assault 4 ap 2 storm bolter

A whole squad with the same super weapon honour squad/relic blades

The chapter banner always giving a +1 attack when the holy relic only allows such a bonus only once per game

And last of all the plasma cannon with a BS of 6 because the sgt wasn’t shooting



My army the orks

I had no set army list I simply used everything I had assuming it reached 2000pts

Warboss – power klaw, Cybork body

Big mek – custom force field, burna

12 lootaz

11 tank hunters - nob, bosspole

10 ork nobz – 1 power klaw, waaagh banner and a pain boy

30 ork boy sluggaz – 3 big shootaz, nob with power klaw and bosspole

30 ork boy shootaz – 2 big shootaz, nob with power klaw and bosspole

30 grots – 3 runt herds

6 warbikes – nob with boss pole and power klaw

5 deff koptaz

KQD

__________________
-Disney: He's the puppet master, both our damnation and salvation. He rewards our successes and punishes us for our hubris (often in subtle but horrible ways). I suggest we do our best not to anger him, he is the greatest asset to our campaign and potentially the most fearsome foe we'll ever face.
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