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How to beat Black Templar
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 16:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default How to beat Black Templar

No matter how many games I play, how much strategy, how many different ways I play my army, I ALWAYS lose to Dark Black Templar armies. I cannot figure out how to win.
I have 20 nobz in 2 battlewagons, I get there full health AND charge. STILL lose combat.
I havent lost a single game besides ANY I play against dark temps.
I dont know what Im doing wrong, any suggestions?
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 19:05   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to beat Dark Templar

Can you give us your list, your opponent's list, and your tactics first. My first bit of advice is NOT to take a 20 strong unit of nobs; they are just too expensive.
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 19:39   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to beat Dark Templar

Eesh, you're dumping a minimal of 380 points into just two units. That's not counting wargear on either the Nobz or the Battlewagons. I dare so you're pushing, what, probably 500pts (or more) just for those two units? Orks can be played so they aren't reliant on being a horde army but I'm guessing you're lacking sorely on units.
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 19:42   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to beat Dark Templar

"Dark Templars"?

Are you talking about Dark Angels or Black Templars? Black armour or dark green?

First of all, stop using 20 Nobs in Battlewaggons, that's just too expensive. Try two units of 20 Sluggas each in a Battlewaggon, complete with a Nob with PK. Field the Nobs either in a BW on their own, or in a Trukk that is screened by the Waggons.

Also, a bit more information about your opponents army, your army (or are the two units of Nobs everything you field?), and the played mission would be quite useful.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 20:52   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to beat Black Templar

My mistake, I meant black templars.
I have tried running 2 battlewagons and 10 nobs with warbosses in each. I have tried 20 foot slogging nobs with 60 boyz, and even 120 boys and 4 small squads of nobs. Nothing works. The rerolls for hits and wounds, etc. Kill me EVERY time. I normally have 60-140 wounds in 1500 points, and no matter what I throw at him I lose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw
First of all, stop using 20 Nobs in Battlewaggons, that's just too expensive. Try two units of 20 Sluggas each in a Battlewaggon, complete with a Nob with PK. Field the Nobs either in a BW on their own, or in a Trukk that is screened by the Waggons.
I really like that idea with the BWs and the Trukks, and will definitely try that next time! ;D
I am also starting to like deff rollas. They are deceptively good.
Do the attacks ignore regular armor saves? Or do you still get your armor from a deff rolla?

The Black Templar guy normally goes with Calgar and a chapter master. Along with 10 termies, and around 30 to 50 of the bolter + chainsword tac marines (sometimes in rhinos). And ALWAYS a land raider.
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 21:09   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How to beat Black Templar

Black Templars are actually quite fun to play against, but you might be running into problems for a couple of reasons.
They do have the ability to advance on you if you shoot at them (are you shooting at them?), which is both a benefit and a great vulnerability on their point.
If you have something small and fast with good range (a buggy, Trukk, Deffkopta), you can actually herd the BT's however they move and prevent them from getting too close.
It sounds as if you're using mass horde tactics against them and getting swamped with either getting shot up or assaulted, which really isn't giong to work as they are pretty hard as it is, and are geared fairly well to assault, especially on the charge. You want to pick and choose your fights and always get the charge.
Luckily, with the BTs, this isn't actually that hard, as once you divest them of their vehicles, it's a fairly simple matter to get them within striking range. A few shots will get them to leave cover (and then nicely setup for charges or more dakka) or force them to move in another direction.
As always, make sure you have PKs for dealing with the beakies, and make sure that you have a variety of forces to deal with them. I'd recommend getting some Lootas, as they have wonderful range for taking down Rhinos and will allow you to move the BTs closer to you at will.
A hefty group of boyz with a PK Nob on the charge should be able to take down a small-mid sized group.
And remember: you don't have to always kill them to be effective. Shooting them off an objective is always fun

Best,
-BT

Edit: Ah, regarding the Deffrolla, you do get armor saves as per usual. If it's kosher with your group (opinions tend to differ), it makes a wonderful anti-armor as it does S10 hits to vehicles.
Also, if he is going Mech, you'll want to slow him down by taking away his mobility. Use Lootas to take out his Rhinos, and force him to get closer with the Land Raider.
I wasn't aware that you could take Calgar with them...

Oh, and Make sure to give your nobs the basics: WAARGH! Banner, Heavy Armor/Cybork and a Painboy besides a few PKs. It should help.
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Old 27 Jul 2009, 23:43   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to beat Black Templar

Is it even legal to run Calgar in a BT army? Aren't they different Codexes?
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 04:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How to beat Black Templar

If he's using clagar the player is probly using the vanilla codex, and painting his marines to look BT.
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 05:54   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How to beat Black Templar

Sounds like he's botched his army to me. He is using Black Templar rules, with the rerolls and bolter and chainsword combos..but Calgar is Vanilla Marine only..

Dioes he use the emporer's champion as a thrid HQ choice?
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Old 28 Jul 2009, 11:41   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How to beat Black Templar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargaule
Does he use the emporer's champion as a thrid HQ choice?
Depends on the game. He switches between Emperor's champ and Calgar. I have told him it was vanilla marines only before, so he has been switching between vanilla and BTs now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigToof
Luckily, with the BTs, this isn't actually that hard, as once you divest them of their vehicles, it's a fairly simple matter to get them within striking range. A few shots will get them to leave cover (and then nicely setup for charges or more dakka) or force them to move in another direction.
As always, make sure you have PKs for dealing with the beakies, and make sure that you have a variety of forces to deal with them. I'd recommend getting some Lootas, as they have wonderful range for taking down Rhinos and will allow you to move the BTs closer to you at will.
A hefty group of boyz with a PK Nob on the charge should be able to take down a small-mid sized group.
Every time I take lootas he stays back in cover.
A 30 man squad of boys with slugga + choppa and a PK nob ALWAYS die to even a regular squad. He will take zero - maybe two wounds, and I will take 4 or more. And this will continue until Im not fearless; then I get run down.
He rolls like a god.
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