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Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!
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Old 30 Mar 2009, 23:13   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

I'll illustrate my ingenious (and best idea ever ) by running it through a hypothetical situation.
Lets say we have a regular vanilla marine player with a well balanced army. He is most likely expecting a pick-up (i.e. no list reading until the match is already happening) 1500 point ork player to field a CC list and so compensates and tweaks his list to make it a tad more shooty. Regular game objectives and Kill points all the same. In other words I'm fielding a generic typical example. Now we add the twist: said player is expecting me to make a most likely Assault based army: my question is: How do I trick his ass into oblivion and make him come to me? I have a few theories on this from some of the articles made by the board: I) use lootas and Gitz and possibly some Kannonz and Deff Koptas to help irritate him enough to come after me. II) Field some Boyz and Nobs to help seize the objectives; if possible use various weapons combination on the nobs to cheese out the wound allocation rules and use the PK as an anti tank option III) Use mabye a company or so of Bustaz with bomb Squigs and mabye a Lobba to help harras his Armor and Infantry. IV) Rewrite the entire Ork codex, and hire a bunch of players to shake their heads every time he looks at the codex and asks "I thought Boyz had BS 3 not 6"
Comments, Suggestions, Constructive Criticism and/or Profanity is Welcome ;D.
Medusa
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 02:00   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

Here are some units to consider ...

Two squads good sized of LOOTAZ.
KILLA KANZ ... they do not want to charge kanz but they do not want them shooting at them all game either ( personally would use BIG SHOOTAZ and grotzookas )
Battlewagons with deffrollas and BIG SHOOTAZ with some nobs with combi-weapons
Flash gitz work too ... sit back shoot and then when he gets close deffrolla his butt and send the Nobs in.
MEK with SHOKK ATTACK gun.
LOBBAZ or KANNONZ for big guns
Grots ... what you say? Have them protect your lootas and boys and Mek ... tarpit anything that comes at you.
Deffkoptas are not as good as buggies with rokkits or BIG SHOOTAZ and give all your boys shootas and one BIG SHOOTA... it is amazing how well they work in numbers.
Tankabustas are not my favorite squad but Iveatch likes them. I would pass. I would rather put Burnas in a BW myself but in a shooty list they are a bit out of place.

Notice how I keep repeating Big Shootas?
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 02:32   #3 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

Un-Orky? Blood Axes! ;D

Kommandoz - Boss Snikrot, 12 Kommandos and 2 Kommandos with Burnaz. Gives you a decent size mob and you got them Kan Openers a.k.a. Burnaz as Power Weapon (Just remember you must not shoot them if you want them to count as Power Weapons). Boss Snikrot gives a wickes Strength 6 Attacks on the Charge! As well as they can come from any table edge which also includes the behind your opponent instead of left or right!

Deffkoptaz - If your opponent is fielding Predators and Whirlwinds, Deffkoptaz can be sneak up on them and cut them in half with Rokkits and Buzzsawz! About 2 or 3 each taking up a slot would do nicely. And of course, you want them to Outflank for good measure

Stormboyz - They look like much but with Boss Zagstruk. You can pretty much Deep-Strike in and Assault anything within 6"! Screw you, Vanguard Veterans! Again, decent size mob of 20 or was it 15....One of things that made Zagstruk attractive is that his Power Klaw strikes on Initiative.

Looted Wagon - Boomwagon to be more precised. They will give the necessary AP3 Ordnance shots that will make any Space Marine player cry but be warn it's front AV is 11 so make sure they're in cover.

Looters - I would propose one mob of 15. They'll be good for taking high-value threats like Whirlwinds (Kill that Ignoring Cover Missile Launcher!), Predator Destructor (TL AC and HB Sponsons) as well as taking down Devastator Squads.

Big Mek with SAG - Anti-TEQ of the Orks! Surround him with some cheap Grots to shield him from any Marines foolish enough to try and stop him.

Battlewagon - This beastly beauty comes in 2 flavors; Deff Rolla and Killkannon. Both of which are respectable in their own field but if you're tranposting anything like say....Nobz or MANz, then go with the Deff Rolla otherwise I say put the Killkannon Battlewagon next to your cheap Looted Wagon and your opponent will have to choose which one to pop; the cheap Looted Wagon or the tough Kannonwagon.

Nobz - If you're taking a Battlewagon with a Deff Rolla, Nobz and MANz will want a seat in one of those. Simply, Nobz are tough and will slice through any Marine Boy in their way. MANz are pretty good too if they aren't packing enough Power Fists and you can add Mad Dok Snikrot to give them FNP and Cybork Bodies if you want to make them even tougher. Nob Bikerz will shrug off anything that can throw at them and they will completely ignore small arms fire. And they're fast and 'ard, able to get into the thick of it fast enough to stall and cause panic in your opponent's Gunline.
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 05:01   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

Sorry about butting into this post, as I realize that my name wasn't on the subject, but I hope you don't mind

Having played a fair amount vs the Marines, I must warn you that trying to outshoot the Marines can be quite problematic.
The best way that I've found to make the Marines "come and get you" is to simply slowly advance.
This works best if you have an objective based mission. Taking a fairly large unit of boyz and then moving them forward will make most marines nervous. Granted they can shoot the dickens out of your boyz, but they have to eventually push them off of the objectives. Big mobz of Orks can be hard to get rid of for the marines, especially if backed by a KFF Big Mek. Simply moving forward and denying him more and more of the board will force the age old marine question:

When do I decide to rapid fire?

The average shooty marine can only do his true ork-killing when rapid-firing, hopefully when deployed nicely by a Rhino. However, he won't want to do this, as it means he'll be easily within charge/WAARGH range. But in the end, it'll be his best bet for whittling down a mob to try and get "the magic number" (What my mates refer to as the number you want to see when you charge in with SS Termies/Assault squads to maximize fearless wounds yet not have enough boyz left to kill you). This will force a nice mid-game mind-problem for the marines, as they will have to try and do a push, especially if it looks like you're not abandoning your points.

In order to help make matters worse, make sure to deny mobility, taking down fast movers and vehicles whenever possible, keeping your flanks secure and something nice and nasty, like a Battlewagon, in the center (best w/ the aforementioned KFF Mek).
If your mate is mostly shooty, after one or two rounds of blasting his best into your mobz, he will realize that things aren't doing that well, especially if you hit him with good Loota/Kannon fire to keep him guessing.

A Kan wall can work well with this idea, but Marines have LOTS of anti-armor, although if he's used to you playing infantry-heavy, it might be a good idea, as hopefully he won't be sporting too many Meltas or Plasmas.
A simple unit in the way screening your boyz with a slow advance will make a LOT of marines nervous, especially if they are full shooty.

If you're playing Blood Axes though, and you are looking for "un-Orky" tricks, a surprise Buzzsaw Deffkopta or a Snikrot attack usually work well (as previously mentioned in the above posts make SURE to bring burnas). But just realize that putting anything in his backfield will make him want to deal with that and less likely to attack you.

And lastly, you will eventually WANT to assault, if only that Ork shooting is rarely going to force Marines off points. Save your WAARGH until you need it. I'd advise using Nobz in a Battlewagon or Bikerz as they both offer mobility and the toughness to stay around until you need them.
Just don't ever back up. The Marines will advance on you before you know it, and they can be devilish to push off once they get stuck in...

Best,
-BT

Edit: Medusa V: I'm sure you know this, but Boyz are BS2 (If only it were otherwise... :'( )
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Old 31 Mar 2009, 12:55   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

I agree with what's been said here. As BigToof is saying, I find the best way to draw an army to me is to hang back a bit. Get yourself some nice ranged weapons, big shootas on Boyz, Lootas, Boomwagon, Lobbas, Kannons, etc., and advance up so you're outside the range of most of his weapons but in range with yours and just pelt him a bit. You can even move within 24" of him, with enough Boyz he won't drop you outside of rapid fire. You aren't going to do much, may get a lucky kill here and there, but he has the choice of sitting there or moving into a better range because Orks can play the game of attrition better than he can.

Keep your Trukks back too, hide them. I find it makes people nervous to have fast vehicles just sitting there, they can't predict where you plan to send them. With them hidden and him having no shots on them, he'll be forced to try and move up to get some shots. Nobody wants full Trukks coming at them. When he does start moving up, then use units like Stormboyz & Trukk Boyz to deny him retreat, corral him in.

That's the basic idea of what I try and do. You can accomplish it with a number of units.
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Old 01 Apr 2009, 00:23   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigToof
Sorry about butting into this post, as I realize that my name wasn't on the subject, but I hope you don't mind
Of course I do. You're so insensitive to my needs :'( :'( :'(
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Old 01 Apr 2009, 01:57   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

A 30 strong mob of shoota boyz sitting in some ruins is next to impossible to dislodge without assaulting them. I remember seeing a post somewhere on another army subforum about how to deal with an Ork player that just took multiple 30-man shoota boyz mobs and sat them in buildings and waited for the other player to chase him.
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Old 05 Apr 2009, 00:03   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Doing the impossible. In other words: IVEATCH THOR ZENAI CANABEBE HELP!

Three full mobz of Lobbas will cause even a Marine player some grief from failed armour saves. The problem with this is that there go all your heavy slots. Plus Lobbas are vulnerable to deep striking or infiltrating units.

Three full mobz of Lootas is just plain insane bad. Honestly, using three full mobz of Lootas boarders on (and arguably is) beardy. But any models that gets moved into range and line of sight (unless they are AV14 or have a 4+ invulnerable save) are in trouble.

A minimalist Tankbusta mob of five tankbustas and three Bombsquigs is a 90 point wonder. This unit is extremely vulnerable to shooting and it will almost be guaranteed to fail leadership tests. But the three Bombsquigs are almost three assured hits on their target, regardless of LOS or terrain type.

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