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Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 09:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

Hey boyz, I'm starting my Ork army and I've got a good amount of stuff that I've been assembling but I'm having a hard time deciding between Speed Freeks and Horde lists. So, I'm asking the big bosses around here for some advice.

I think I'll start by just listing what I have. Hopefully that can give everyone a better idea of what I'm working with so ya'll can give more specific advice on what my options are.

~85 Shoota boyz
- 20 Slugga/choppa boyz
- 4 trukks
- Battlewagon
- 20 Nobz
- 3 warbikes(so far)
- 5 deff koptas
- Warboss
- Warboss on bike
- Warboss w/ Mega Armor
- Big Mek w/ KFF
- 10 Lootas(so far)
- Looted Wagon w/ boomgun

So I've got enough models as is to run either, but I think I want a mix of both. I'm shooting for a 2,000 point list. But don't let what I have limit input, buying new stuff is an option for me. I'm building the army up to Apocalypse size anyway, I just want a good 2k list I can run for the time being.

Any input or advice and especially army list would be greatly appreciated. I'm still in the assembling phase so specific loadouts for wargear for the squads with in the army will be a big help!

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Old 27 Mar 2009, 09:42   #2 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

Well, for one; Boyz riding in Trukks should be Slugga Boyz because you're going to assault then you disembark so Shoota seems moot. Shoota Boyz should be a Foor-Slogging element of your army.

Battlewagon; this is personal preference - I like them with Deff Rolla since I'm going up close and personal while transporting whatever I gotz in them anyway as well as it makes a good Anti-Tank.

Deffkoptaz; either 1 for each slot or 5 in one slot because they can't have Bosspole and they're Ld7. One Leadership can spell RUNZ FOR IT!

That's it from the top of my head.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 09:51   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

I disagree about the shootas. I play mainly KOS and I have one unit of shootas that always hitches a ride. Being able to shoot from the realitive safety of the trukk is a great advantage. If I were to make a hybrid force I think I'd put the shootas in the trukks and have the sluggas hoof it. Best thing about shootas is their 18" assault 2 guns, which I feel would be wasted in a footslogging force. I'd want my footsloggers to get into cc as soon as possible, so I'd be running them. By having sluggas do this you don't loose much, cause they'd be out of range with their pistols so just run and get there sooner.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 13:29   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

I agree with Scoutfox. For the longest time I didn't use Shootas in Trukks because I wanted to assault and wanted that extra attack per-body with Slugga Boyz. If things go well and you disembark with all Boyz intact and charge in then yes, Sluggas do have an edge here. However, most times I lose my Trukks and am too far out to charge. Shootas have, as Scoutfox pointed out, 18" assault2 weapons so now I can move in and soften up my target before I get into charge range. Don't rule these guys out in a Trukk, they work great for it.

You definitely have enough to work with. If you got a few more Slugga Boyz then you could put down 2 Trukks full of them and another Trukk or 2 of Shootas. You could put 20 Shootas in a BW if you wanted or of course get some Nobz in it. You have enough Shootas to do the above and still put down a big footprint of them for slogging. Kopta use is easy enough and covered and the Lootas are great for covering your objective and having range to sit on it while mowing down infantry and light vehicles on the other side. I like Boomwagons but they do require some finesse to avoid getting smoked by turn 2.

So yeah, load up the Trukks, BW (KFF Big Mek in here somewhere), get the Lootas setup with the Boomwagon, slog some Shootas and race up the Koptas and you have a decent hybrid list. I would consider getting some Grots for a cheap home objective sitter and tar pit for your back lines. I'm a fan of Ork artillery too, specifically Kannons and Lobbas, as they give you some covering fire for your slower units and to soften up targets for your fast units.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 14:52   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

I guess I run sort of a mix. I get some flak from my fellow goffs for fielding so many transports, but my boyz don't mind.

In my army, I have a rule: Nobz and bosses ride in style, boyz slog. This applies to meganobz, regular nobz, shoota boyz and slugga boyz. If you're a boy, you walk. If you're a nob, you ride.

Reasons:

1) Nobz are smaller unit sizes and fit easier in vehicles
2) If I'm going to be paying a premium to transport units into combat, I want them kick ass and take names when they get there!
3) It makes sense fluffwise! No nob squad would allow some lousy trukk boyz to ride when they themselves were walking ;D
4) It helps insulate my army from morale problems, large boy mobs means I don't have to take many morale tests with them. Putting the nobz in vehicles protects them in a different way by making sure they don't take tests (except for the occasional pinning test when my vehicles explode).

That would be my advice for how to run a mix.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 18:37   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

Thanks for the comments so far guys. It's definitely giving me some things to think about.

I probably should have mentioned the Shoota boyz listed have some that will be converted to shootas from AoBR boyz, so I can always leave them as is for more slugga boyz. I also do have 1 box of grots I forgot to list but I was mostly planning on using them for riggers and other conversions. I can and will probably get more just cause I love the little guys! ;D
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 18:50   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

Something else to consider would be Kans if you're doing a hybrid, this is something I also do. You can use the Kans to guard your flank, if you're concerned about it, or to move forward trailing behind the fast stuff. With the ability to run with them, they aren't as slow as they used to be. Plus, being BS3 lets you have a better chance of actually hitting something, and grotzookas are just fun.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 19:05   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

Yeah, I was planning on adding some kans and dreds that I'll be converting from the Chemical Plant set.

Another thing I wanted to ask about was the weapon upgrades for certain things and what the most effective while keeping the points low. Mainly, out of 5 Deffkoptas what is a good amount of Rokkits? For kans, what's generally the best way to equip them?

The battlewagon I was planning on running with RPJ, reinforced ram, big shoota x3 and grot riggers. To me I think this will be enough to keep it moving and have the ability to shoot stuff and tank shock after the boyz disembark (assuming it doesn't get blown up first! :P) Although, let me know if there's anything I should add or drop from that setup.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 19:26   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

Wargear, you'll get different answers here. I personally use all rokkits on my Deffkoptas since I use them as a tank hunter. Big shootas are obviously great for mowing down infantry, and Deffkoptas aren't bad in assault. I just prefer to use them for armor first and then infantry if all else fails. This is where outflanking them is nice, come in for a side or rear armor shot. I don't give them anything else though, just the rokkits. Buzzsaws are decent but I find it hard to justify the cost. I think it's fine to put one on a single Kopta but I wouldn't spend points for more. I have yet to use the bigbomm but that's mostly because by the time you've got 5 Koptas on the table with tl-rokkits, you've got a pricey unit already.

BW load outs are numerous. What I do is give them a reinforced ram or a deff rolla, depending where I'm at with points, and a single big shoota, that's it. I add RPJ or plates if points permit. I just use the single big shoota to avoid being destroyed on a weapon destroyed result if immobilized. Really, I just use the BW as a transport with the option to tank shock/ram. Being that I'll normally be moving it 12" a turn anyway, I won't be shooting. Of course if you drop off the Boyz and the BW lives then the guns come in handy but I find that to be secondary.

Kans, depends what you're using them for. The BS3 makes them a prime candidate for a KMB (though their expensive), and rokkits for some tank hunting. You can't go wrong with a big shoota either and grotzookas are great if you're up against a horde army or can make that 18" range. They aren't bad against MEQs either, being they are S6 and heavy2, the range is the trick with them though. If you field them in a squadron then grot riggers and plates are useless with the squadron rules. I typically field them in a squadron just to leave me 2 other heavy slots but I have also fielded 3 single Kans in each heavy slot.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 22:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Speed Freeks vs. Horde lists - Can there be a happy medium?

I have always been running a hybrid list.
Keeping a Battlewagon filled with Warboss and Ard Boyz and a full squad of bikers or a Trukk full of Nobz as main forward assault elements while I advance Kanz and large mobs behind them.
Worked fantastically until now.

On the Shoots vs. Sluggas question. I would keep Sluggas as the fast point. and advance Shootas behind. If any.
The extra attack is essential, especially if you compare it with puny fire of a small mob of Shootas provides. The more attacks the better.

You should also get a Painboy for your Nobz and some Grots for holding objectives. And a lot more Sluggas Boyz.
Other than that, you have what you need to field solid lists.

Cheers
KW
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