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Tankbustas - Your Thoughts
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Old 25 Mar 2009, 17:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

Like many, once we got our shiny new codex, my Tankbustas got shelved. They got more expensive but everyone got a rokkit. They got cool wargear like tankhammers and bomb squigs but also got the glory hog rule. With Deffkoptas being put into the current codex I just forgot about my Tankbustas.

I'm curious if anyone is currently using them and how they are finding them? I've been putting some thought into running a 10 strong unit of them but a transport almost seems required, if nothing else to help avoid the glory hog rule. Move up, disembark and use the transport to block LOS so you can shoot what you really want. That's the short of my pondering with these guys.

I think the other thing with Tankbustas is that many see them as a ranged anti-armor unit and really they aren't. I know I always saw them that way. We know our BS is lousy and even with 10 rokkits you're still only landing 3 hits. However, tankhammers can be taken, we have bomb squigs which get around the lousy BS, and we have tankbusta bombs. Getting on top of a vehicle is the way these guys are meant to be played. Fire on the way in and bang a couple of tankhammers off the tank and slap some bombs on the side and watch it go boom.

I'm starting to see them as a viable choice but would love to hear experiences from others with Tankbustas.
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Old 25 Mar 2009, 23:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

Is all the points for a Trukk etc. worth the pain and torture of the (wince) "Glory Hound" rule? After all a smart player who sees them will always put his more expendable vehicles in front to help head off LOS of his more precious units and to try to get "Glory Hound" to draw Bustaz out and destroy them. Seems a wee bit high maintenance that .
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Old 26 Mar 2009, 12:45   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

All true enough, that's why I'm tossing it out there. Do the pros outweigh the cons? Maybe someone is using them now, using them effectively and can share some tips.

I think they've just become more of a niche unit where before they were easily put into an all comers list. Take for example my Tau friend who fields 2 Hammerheads typically and those are his only vehicles. Those are 2 juicy targets, neither more expendable than the other, so I'm pretty well free to fire those rokkits where I want them. He did field a Piranha once with meltas for taking out my BW. More expendable than the Hammerheads but still a vehicle he was banking on.

So against my friend's Tau, Tankbustas probably wouldn't fair too badly.
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Old 26 Mar 2009, 13:04   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

Tankbustas are extremely powerful and useful. However it takes fineasse, ohhhhhhh Alberto, to use them. If you include other vehicles to help control them, terrian that BLOS and even enemy vehicles that you want to target. This unit can be extremely effective. For the typical Ork commander that just throws everything head strong straight the enemy and hopes for the best, yes this unit is not going to work out well for you. However if you're more like a Blood Axe Command and can sit and wait there is no reason why a small squad of tankbusta cannot rack up some kills. Against Armies with no tanks the glory hog rule goes right out the window. Nids would fit this bill. This now allows them to go MC hunting. The strength of the rokkit will instant kill 90% of the units out their if they take a wound. With the majority of units having at most a 3+ save chances are that for every rokkit hit you score on a infantry model it will equal one dead infantry model. Overall they have their use but they are not a unit that you build an army around, rather they are a unit that is used to fill the gaps in your half build one.
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Old 26 Mar 2009, 14:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

I don't think that Tankbustas can have the option of riding in a transport vehicle.

You can still use a Trukk (or other Ork Vehicle) to block line of sight, however.

I like Tankbustas, the star is the Tankhammer with Tankbustas. They are great for defending (or contesting) objectives.

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Old 26 Mar 2009, 14:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

You can field a Looted Wagon and put them in there or they can confiscate a Trukk from some Boyz, or even take a Battlewagon and throw them in there.
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Old 26 Mar 2009, 17:26   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

Remember you can't instakill nids in synapse. I have thought about using them against nids as well, as I think they are the perfect anti-MC unit.

I have yet to try them out in a battle, but that's mainly due to the fact that I only have two rokkit boy models. I refuse to buy the GW ones. For one they are expensive and look like they just got off stage in the red light district.

Think I will have to start proxying them and see if they are a worth while unit for me. I run lots of vehicles so blocking LOS and not getting screwed by their special rule should be pretty managable.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 01:13   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor{DoH}
You can field a Looted Wagon and put them in there or they can confiscate a Trukk from some Boyz, or even take a Battlewagon and throw them in there.
Maybe I've just learned something new about Orks. I was under the impression that Nobz and Ork Boyz (plus any Independent Ork Character that joined them) were the only units that could be tucked into an Ork transport. I do know that Orks have the unigue ability to switch from one transport to another. But I thought it was only with Ork Nobz and Ork Boyz plus any ICs in the mob.

Interesting.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 02:18   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

I could write an entire essay on why tankbustas suck, but I'll break it down to the major points due to time constraint:

1) Can't target what you want. They're bound to firing only upon vehicle models so long as one is in line of sight, no matter how badly damaged it already is (weapon destroyed hellhound, for example) or how far away it is (even if obviously outside of 24").

2) Slower than slow. Even units with slow and purposeful can RUN in this edition. Tankbustas however, are forced to fire their weapons every shooting phase and therefore entirely disallowed from running if there is any vehicle present. To counteract this, you can buy them a trukk which ensures the units even quicker evaporation, as it takes only a small amount of bolterfire to destroy the trukk, killing 1/3 of all the orks on board due to the wacky ramshackle table. You could instead buy a battlewagon to cover their over-priced asses, taking up a precious heavy support slot that could be used to transport a full unit of 20 boys into a REAL assault and costing too much for its designated function and restrictions.

Even with transports considered, the transports can move no further than 6" without the Tankbustas losing their ability to fire their extra-expensive weaponry. Of course, that's not much of a loss as pointed out below.

3) They're weak! for 15pts, you get an ork, that dies just as a normal ork would when subjected to lasfire. This seems like a terrible value, but lets look at the difference from a normal ork. He has a rokkit on a stick! That's bound to balance things out, so lets take a closer look at it. Well, first off it's fired by the normal ork, so out of 3 turns of shooting, he'll only hit once. It'll take three orks then to hit once in one turn of shooting. For those 45pts, we're putting a single S8 hit on a target, which will be whatever is probably most convenient for our opponents, if we're playing anyone smart. Assuming he doesn't go the route of throwin trash in front of them simply to stall them, and they actually get a shot at something worth their time, that S8 hit generally has a 16% chance of managing a glance, and a 16% chance of penetrating (AV13). On a glance, you've got a 33% chance of doing anything substantial to your target, like immobilized or weapon destroyed. On the pen, it's up all the way to 66%. That means the total of doing lasting damage to the tank, no matter how small, is 15.84%. The reason I discount stunned and shaken results, are because quite simply they cancel out your entire tankbusta squad, and your opponents vehicle equally. I don't wanna hear any crap about "Well maybe that's the turn where it counts the most!" because for the price of a tankbustas squad, and given that if you're taking them in an ork army your'e generally counting on them as your primary source of anti-tank, and even a small squad of them costs more than almost any tank they'd be shooting at, it's simply not an effective use of resources. Just to entirely and fully ensure that they have no uses, even against an army like tyranids with no vehicles at all to make the tankbustas useless due to their "glory hogs" rule, the tankbustas manage to be useless all on their own due to their AP being too low to harm any of the monstrous creatures, their number of shots being too low to threaten tyranid warriors or gaunts, and their survivability too low to withstand anything charging or shooting at them. The way for orks to deal with any kind of MCs is by powerklaw, not shooting.

There you have it. A small tidbit of advice for anyone even thinking about putting tankbustas in their list.
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Old 27 Mar 2009, 13:12   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Tankbustas - Your Thoughts

For the sake of discussion, let me play the devil's advocate here.

Everything in an Ork army is BS2 except for Kans and Grots. The lackluster performance of shooting is no worse for Tankbustas than it is almost any other unit. The difference though is the cost of the Tankbusta and that single shot assault weapon, but that is why after all every Tankbusta gets a rokkit, quantity over quality...or really the chance to hit anything.

The strength and all the mathhammer on glancing and penetrating is the same for just about every weapon we have capable of busting a tank. S8 is just about as good as it gets for Orks, in shooting anyway. Again, each one has a rokkit since we're going with volume of fire here.

Cost, well yeah, they aren't cheap for Orks but they are 1 point cheaper than a Boy with a rokkit. I realize 1pt isn't a huge difference, but did want to note it. Survivability, sure, they aren't any more survivable than a Boy but you aren't taking them for that reason. If I didn't field units because they are more expensive than a boy but not more survivable, well that leaves me a pretty minimal selection of units.

I believe we all agree that glory hog is their biggest weakness. That being said, just as a smart opponent is going to try and force you to fire where he wants, or try to fire and not be able to run, if you play it smart you can minimize that with terrain and your own vehicles. Plus really, is my opponent going to move his vehicles every round in such a way that I'm forced to waste shots there instead of him using his vehicles for what they are good at? I hardly think so. If the person I'm playing is moving vehicles in this manner, he's most likely exposing himself in some way to other elements of my army that might make a side or rear armor shot. Barring that, he's reacting to me, he's worrying about the Tankbustas, and if I have someone spending that much time playing with his vehicles to deny the use of a single unit of mine, well he's made a mistake right there.

As I was saying in my initial post, they aren't a range anti-armor unit, they're an assault unit. They fire on the way in, they don't sit back at 24" and fire off rokkits all game. If you use them in this manner than yes, they are expensive and not worth it. I can take 10 Tankbustas (including a Nob w/bosspole), 2 tankhammers and 2 bomb squigs, for 175pts. What I have is 8 rokkits, 2 Boyz with S10 CC weapons, and a Nob for LD. If I'm moving at my target then I'm peppering it with rokkits on my way in. Once I reach 18" I can let off bomb squigs and not have to deal with my lousy BS and have a guaranteed hit at S8 (assuming I don't roll a 1). Should I manage to assault, well you can do the math. Each Ork having tankbusta bombz plus those S10 tankhammers.

That's their advantage over any other unit for busting tanks, assault. When you look at it that way, they aren't all that expensive. For 175pts you can put down 10 bodies capable of busting a tank with ease in assault. You can toss them in a Looted Wagon for cheap and use that to avoid slogging it. You can disembark and use that Wagon to block LoS to the vehicle(s) you don't want to fire on.

Lastly, I wouldn't rely on these guys as my only AV unit, I don't ever rely on any one unit for that, just as I don't rely on one unit for CC. I think they would be a great compliment to Deffkoptas who are going to be moving fast and in the face of my opponent, letting me move Tankbustas more safely because he's dealing with the immediate threat. They probably won't pay off for you every game either, but I don't know about you, but I don't think I've put down a single unit that has paid off for me every single game I've played either. Some are more reliable than others, but I never put faith in a single unit, it's the cohesion of the list I put my faith in.
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