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The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 02:40   #1 (permalink)
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Default The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

Ok I have 2 questions:

So what's the deal with the Waagh! special rule and 5th edition?

The Ork codex was released during 4th edition so the rules make perfect sense for 4th edition.

However the problem comes with 5th edition the Fleet special rule was changed so that you no longer roll a D6 to see how far you move. Now we do that through running, so that Waagh! only grants fleet special rule in it's current form correct?

So here's the big problem...Ghazghkull Thraka's special rule says you always count as rolling a 6 for the Waagh! movement during his special Waagh!

How does that translate to 5th edition?

By RAW my interpretation is that this is one of those cases where the new rulebook made an ability/upgrade pointless. Since you don't roll a D6 for fleet anymore and RUN is not at all mentioned in the entry.

I am a new Ork player, I'd like to point out and that was my interpretation of the rules for him. Meaning I still have to roll a D6 for run even if using Ghazghkull's Waagh!, However today I played versus an Ork player that was actually using Ghazghkull and I was playing space marines. And he called upon his special waagh! and claimed that he gets to make his normal move in the movement phase, and then move another automatic 6" in the shooting phase + assault me as normal.

And we had an hour long debate on this. Because I stress that nowhere does it say that Ghazghkull gets a 6" RUN move automatically. And everyone at the store debated that this is how it worked in 4th edition which I admit makes PERFECT sense 'in 4th edition' but not in 5th.

So really im sure this must have come up before and if not enlighten me because in the end we just rolled off to solve the problem 1-2 my way, 3-6 his way. He won the roll and subsequently the game as I was NOT counting on Ghazghkull to have a 6" move in the shooting phase from an automatic RUN that is never mentioned in his entry.

We also checked the FAQ and there's no mention of this. So either GW believes the rule is crystal clear or they assume everyone will play by RAI, including new Ork players like myself.

The second question is how long does Ghazghkull's Waagh! last. Originally from reading his entry I thought 'all following player turn' meant that once you use his waagh everyone has fleet until the game ends. Or does this imply that it is only for the entirety of that 1 turn?
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 02:48   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

5th Edition's Fleet still need to roll a D6 since it gives the ability for units with Fleet to Assault after they Run. Furthermore, Ork's WAAAGH! need to roll a D6 as well for their Fleet.

First; Ghazghkull counts as a 6 for your Running Roll and then you can Assault so it gives a potential 18" Assault Range.

Second; it last until the next of your Turn.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 03:03   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow Kitty
5th Edition's Fleet still need to roll a D6 since it gives the ability for units with Fleet to Assault after they Run. Furthermore, Ork's WAAAGH! need to roll a D6 as well for their Fleet.

First; Ghazghkull counts as a 6 for your Running Roll and then you can Assault so it gives a potential 18" Assault Range.

Second; it last until the next of your Turn.
So you are telling me that the rulebook itself states that fleet and run are the same thing?

I tend to play by RAW more than RAI and I just did not get THAT intepretation from 5th edition Fleet/RUN rules. Seems to me like 2 different rules.

Fleet allowing a unit who's made a run move to assault, and RUN allowing units to move D6 inches.

Does everyone believe that fleet = run + assault? I could perhaps be wrong but i always understood 5th edition fleet = assault AFTER using RUN special rule.

Always thought of it as being 2 separate rules in play. This is mainly supported by 4th edition Fleet which clearly said 'you roll a D6' where as 5th edition fleet simply says 'you may assault after run'.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 03:07   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

It seems pretty strait forward to me. When you WHAAGH!, you gain Fleet for a singel turn. This means that you move, then role a D6, then assault if you can. What exactly is the confusion?
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 03:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

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Originally Posted by Notanoob
It seems pretty strait forward to me. When you WHAAGH!, you gain Fleet for a singel turn. This means that you move, then role a D6, then assault if you can. What exactly is the confusion?
read da thread bro...the problem is Ghazghkull's waaagh
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 04:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

What your doing is taking too literally even for RAW :. It really is simple in the fact that run replaces fleet and that Gazkulls run rolls for the turns are 6's. In 4th it meant they could run. In 5th it means they can now assult after running. Im too tired to pull out my roolbook (Eh see what I did there being an ork an all ) and show you but I can argue it againtst you.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 04:14   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

Ghazghkull's Waaagh is poorly worded for 5th edition.

In 4th, it was pretty clear what Ghazghkull's Prophet ability was supposed to do - give him a 6" Fleet movement.

The problem with Ghazghkull's Waaagh is that it replaces the normal Waaagh instead of what it should say - that it overrides the usual Waaagh rules.

Technically, because it replaces it rather than overrides it, and because it never actually grants Fleet like a normal Waagh, the automatic rolling of 6 would allow unimpeded movement through cover and arguably an automatic 6" run, but would not allow an assault after the run.

Frankly, though, the concept of trying to deny an Ork player what was obviously intended - a 6" Fleet movement - and arguing about this for an hour really saddens me. This is the sort of argument I'd make after the game about the absurdity of technical RAW, after making it completely clear that whatever the RAW ends up saying, the intention is so frickin' clear it should be an assumed Houserule.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 04:17   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valten
What your doing is taking too literally even for RAW :. It really is simple in the fact that run replaces fleet and that Gazkulls run rolls for the turns are 6's. In 4th it meant they could run. In 5th it means they can now assult after running. Im too tired to pull out my roolbook (Eh see what I did there being an ork an all ) and show you but I can argue it againtst you.
Feel free i want you too, because i plan on playing Orks (i have 2,500 points already) and getting Ghazghkull and I honestly would've never imagined that somehow FLEET = RUN. Because well...it's not in my rulebook at least.

I do am the type of player that does like to play RAW (however most people dont play raw which i see as being wrong) and it is because I also wish to play the same character that I NEED to know beyond a doubt how the heck his rules work before i start using it and feeling like im cheating my opponent by doing something i'm not supposed to.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 05:45   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

Fleet=run. However, flee has a few extra rules, meaning that the squad that has fleet can assault after runni9ng.

Think of Fleet more as an upgrade rather than a seperate rule.
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Old 19 Mar 2009, 11:57   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The Waaagh! And 5th Edition (I REALLY need this answered)

I think you are reading far, far too into this.

If someone used Ghazkuls special rule and wanted to run 6" then I see no problem. It's the reason why the rule exists, running is just rewording of the old fleet special rule from when the codex was written.

I feel dreadfully sorry for the person that you argued with on nothing more than a technicallity.
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