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5th ed and Powerfists/Buzzsaws...a gripe.
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Old 04 Mar 2009, 13:11   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,803
Default 5th ed and Powerfists/Buzzsaws...a gripe.

Is it me or has 5th ed taken out some of the punch (pun intended) out of Orks, in regards to requiring a pair of powerfists in order to get the bonus attack? As in foot-mounted Nobs no longer get the +1 CCW and cost more than an equivalent Meganob? Aside from Biker Nobs, is there any real reason to use a normal Nob instead of a Meganob? Don't say Feel No Pain either as the mathhammer is still inferior (as in if the attack will break through armor, it will also break through FNP). Really the only thing I can think of is the fact that they don't move as if in difficult terrain (whoop-de-freakin-doo, get a Battlewagon), and they only count as one transport model. Part of it is I believe the Powerfist was costed for 4th edition and in that version, having an extra PF attack per Nob really was worth the relative price-hike; with that advantage removed it seems pointless now.

A similar issue arises with the Deffkopta. A Buzzsaw being 25 pts, in 4th ed it would've allowed an extra attack (due to it stacking with a Choppa) yet in the current edition, you're paying 60 pts for a Buzzsaw-kopta. Is replacing your attacks really worth the almost double-cost in the deffkopta?
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Old 04 Mar 2009, 13:43   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Default Re: 5th ed and Powerfists/Buzzsaws...a gripe.

1. Meganobz vs. Regular Nobz

I had noticed the meganobz relatively lower cost as well. However, you shouldn't be giving every nob in your regular nob mob a klaw, that's huge amounts of overkill... Instead, you should give two or three of them power klaws and then use the rest of the unit to either be ablative wounds (against monsters) or even better killers (against enemy hordes). In addition, regular nobz have access to perhaps the single greatest piece of wargear in the ork list - the waaagh banner. The power this confers is just spectacular and is one of the reasons that nobz remain my choice over meganobz on a regular basis. Don't be so quick to disregard the painboyz abilities either. Where megas have exactly zero chance of surviving a power fist or a lascannon wound, regular nobz at least get their cybork body save.

While you can flippantly declare "get a battlewagon" in regards to the meganobz slow and purposeful rule, you will be singing a different tune the first time you roll a 1 and a 2 to assault someone who is three inches away. Don't forget that a battlewagon can also be destroyed... gork forbid it happen on the first turn.

2. In regards to deffkoptaz.

I'm convinced that the buzzsaws are well worth their points. A klaw on a slow little guy like a nob is only worth it if he can make it across the board to get into combat. With a deffkopta's scout move/outflank (depending on whether you're going first or second), you are almost assured of an assault. In addition their speed allows you to pick on things that are most fragile vs. a klaw and most valuable to your opponent. Favorite targets of mine include a thunderfire cannon, a rhino full of tactical marines far from the action and lurking hammerhead. So while it is weaker, the speed of the deffkopta allows a klaw to be where you want it when you want it, and that is well worth the price.
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Old 04 Mar 2009, 13:56   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 5th ed and Powerfists/Buzzsaws...a gripe.

Droofus has a lot of good points and I agree. Aside from using the other Nobz as ablative wounds for the few with PKs, big choppas are a great weapon. Don't underestimate a S7 attack on the charge at I4, which is an advantage to Nobz over Meganobz, having a decent initiative. Other than the Waaagh! Banner, Nobz can take a bosspole where Meganobz can't. Meganobz rely on having an IC with them for leadership, which isn't a bad thing, but it's nice to not be forced into babysitting a unit too. And yeah, the movement can be a killer, transport or not. As Droofus said, you're rolling for movement in the movement phase and for charging, nothing hurts more than falling short on that charge.

The buzzsaw lets you assault a vehicle and have a chance at penetrating that rear armor. It also gives you a power weapon when assaulting units, which can be handy. I can't say I can justify the cost of it but I don't feel it's useless either.
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Old 04 Mar 2009, 13:57   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Default Re: 5th ed and Powerfists/Buzzsaws...a gripe.

First of all, I must say that I completely understand your pain with the Power Klaw/Fist changes from 4th to 5th... But that's an old wound that I won't rant on (actually just deleted a paragraph or two as I realized that it was totally non-contributory to the discussion )

1. MANZ vs. Nobz
I totally agree with Droofus and Thor regarding the Nobz' superiority. Movement is superior, as you will be hampered in assault, and have much, much better gear. The Bosspole, the WAARGH banner (especially when combined with a Warboss... WS6=OUCH, even the Big Mek gets a massive boost going from WS4 to 5!), the Painboy, and ALL of the Kombi options are just well worth it. Granted, you have to take more of them to soak wounds for the others, but really, anything not S8 or AP1/2 isn't that big of a deal for them. With the new wound allocations, it's really a bear to whittle them down. Also, my main goal for them is to STAY in assault for at least two rounds (my turn and my opponents turn ), and the only way I've found is to multi-assault. Having more Nobz makes it easy for you to string together two squads and really lets you dish out the damage. Also, having a nice intiative vs a Power-Fist type squad really helps, as you can wail on the Terminator wall and take down a few before they start to hit back.

2. Deffkoptaz
I haven't had too much success with them, if only that I don't field enough in the big games, but by Gork can they really hurt things. They are a near-perfect anti-sniper and if you've never done it, a Turn 1 assassination of a Rhino-based tank (Vindicator, Predator, you name it) is just one of those guilty Ork pleasures. I would love for them to have another attack, but well... what can you do?

Best,
-BT
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