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How to Deal with Shooty MCs
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 11:50   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default How to Deal with Shooty MCs

Hi All,
Just wanted some general advice on Shooty MCs. I face a shooty Tyranid player (I've written up one of our battles), and he's got a devilsh strategy that has made our games too close as of late. Right now, I only have two fast movers, my Nob Bikers and my Nobz in a Battlewagon. He takes his Shooty MCs and surrounds them with little bugs, too many for me to be able to squeeze through with the Nob Bikerz. He has A LOT of them, especially with Without Number, and I've been struggling to get to his gunline (And usually has three units of genestealers waiting for me by that point, scary!). We've been also playing Seize Ground, so he's been pounding the heck out of my boyz, and popping the Battlewagon, making my Nobz walk through the pie-plates. I'm just not sure what to do about this strategy, as he sets up his buildings to block Loota LOS, and castles all of the MCs together. I've been thinking about bringing back a pie-plate just for all of that nastiness, but I'm not really sure how to counter this tactic... Any advice would be appreciated.

Best,
-BT
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 12:34   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

I'd look into templates. A Big Mek with an SAG, a Looted Wagon or three, Kans with grotzookas, Lobbas, you get the idea. If he's going to group his stuff together, surrounding the MCs with a meatshield, then blast it apart with the afore mentioned things and try to pin them. Even if you can't take it all out, if you're forcing enough pinning then he's bound to start failing the tests and he won't be shooting.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 12:57   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

I personally don;t like to see list tailoring and would look to your strengths to get you by this enemy. Remember the mission you are playing is an objective based one not one that requires you to kill. Go for the objectives and in the process deny him the ability to see your units by keeping them out of sight for as long as possible. This should cause him to get fustrates and send a unit or two after you. Isolate these units and you can easily wipe them up.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 13:34   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

Thank you both for your suggestions!
Thor:
I'm glad you like the idea of templates. I've been thinking about adding a Looted Wagon for some time now, but I'm not sure if it'll be worth the investments on other armies. I really, really need my Mek for his KFF, so the SAG seems out for now... I really feel like I need something mobile that will let me clear a path for the Bikers. Grotzookas seem like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure if it'll help the bikers (usually in Assault in Turn 2). Ditto with Lobbas, if only that I have horrid accuracy with them (The one time I used them they missed a Bloodthirster with ALL THREE shots!)

Hyena031:
Thanks for the advice. I'm all against list-tailoring too, and if anything, I think his tactics are pointing out a big deficiency in my list. The big problem is that he really, really outnumbers me troop-wise, having 3 units of Without Number Spineguants and 3 units of Genestealers. In Seize Ground, I'm just really in trouble, as he hides his stealers until turn 4 and fleets them into objectives, and by that time the boyz are really too beat up to get there and smack down genestealers unless I can somehow surpress his gunline... Granted if its for KPs, I can clear him out easy, but in other missions, those troops are making me nutty, especially with the ability to just recycle them with Without Number. I've thought about adding a unit of grots to the army, but it seems that vs shooty MCs, well, they won't be keeping any objectives unless I can get in and take down some of the offense.

Idea: Would putting Skorchas on the bikes help? Not sure if its legal, but if I shoot at the MC, and the little bugs are in the way, would that at least help thin them out? 2 or 3 flame templates could give me a decent hole I could maneuver a bike through...

Best,
-BT
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 13:41   #5 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

Skorcha - One of the better Kombi Weapons available to Nobz. Personally, I don't take them because I like to spend on some other stuff :P Skorchas are great for any occasion especially when you're going up close and personal anyway
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 13:47   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

You could do some skorcha Buggies/Trakks but not on Warbikes.

Maybe you could try playing defensively instead of rushing in there. If you're in assault by turn 2 then I imagine you're pushing forward and he is and with his numbers and shooting, well you know the results already. I know it goes against Ork nature but playing defensively can be effective. If you setup a Looted Wagon, or whatever shooty unit(s) suit you, hold your Boyz back but staying inside the Trukks/Battlewagon, just open fire on him. Try and thin him down a bit before you advance, dance around his forward units, keep him guessing. Things like a Looted Wagon and Lobbas will do their job if given enough time, give them that time. A unit of Kommandos outflanking with 2 burnas could come in handy for flushing out those units that hang back.

You don't have to tailor you list or necessarily change a lot in your list at all. What you do have to do is change your strategy and tactics. You can have all the right units but if you fight him the same way each time then the results probably won't change much.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 13:58   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

Thank you all for the advice!

Zenai:
I so do love Skorchas too! I don't think BigToof has really killed anything yet with his yet, but I'm hoping it'll eventually pay off

Thor:
Re: Skorchas, Just was a a silly question, had seen it on a few lists at BoLS, they were putting Kombi Shoota/Skorchas on their Nob Biker lists... Didn't know if that was 100% ok or not... I know I wouldn't mind putting out a few flame templates before rushing in
The only reason I would put them on the Bikes is that I'm usually WAARGHing in my footslogging Nobs, and I rarely shoot with the Bikers recently, as they tend to kill too much Still, a few skorchas would be a nice option (But I guess not legal... darn it)

Silly question, but how do you dance around nasty shooty units that ignore you? The Nid player has just been ignoring the Nob Bikers, and its actually worked out for him, as I can only really annihilate a few units of guants at a time. He retreats a bit, new guants come back on, re-surround the MCs and I'm back to square one. As he's SITTING on his objective, it's not helping me too much... (Darn big MCs easily fill up 3" around it...)
I've also considered trying to get in a dueling contest with his MCs vs my Lootaz, but he's been able to force me to go to ground with some nasty dakka (12 wounds a turn will do that to a squad! Note this is from ONE MC.)

Best,
-BT
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 14:04   #8 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

Oh, that! Well, people normally put Kombi-Weapons to play around with the Wound Allocation Rule E.g.:

1 Nob with Power Klaw and Twin-Linked Shoota
1 Nob with Power Klaw and Kombi-Rokkit
1 Nob with Power Klaw and Kombi-Skorcha
1 Nob with Big Choppa and Twin-Linked Shoota
1 Nob with Big Choppa and Kombi-Rokkit
1 Nob with Big Choppa and Kombi-Skorcha
1 Nob with Choppa and Twin-Linked Shoota
1 Nob with Choppa and Kombi-Rokkit
1 Nob with Choppa and Kombi-Skorcha

This is the more extreme case But a few Kombi-Skorcha here and there is fine.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 14:07   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

It's easy to give advice when you're not the one playing the game and little to go off other than theory. That being said, he's sitting the MCs on objectives surrounded by troops, right? He then has other troop units that hang out and wait till turn 4 to rush in to those objectives? I take it those hidden units are the ones ignoring you?

It sounds like the real threat is the hidden units that rush out at the end, at least on objective based matches. If he's ignoring your Nob Bikers then I'd send them at those units he's relying on for the last turn objective grabs. I'd throw most of my attention that way, force him to vacate an objective to support those units or at the least weaken his hold on those objectives if he sends either his MC or supporting unit to help the units are you smacking around. Force him to choose, hold the objectives he has or save the units that will claim more later on. Keep an ace up your sleeve, hold something back so that if he's sending units off to support his fast objective grabbers that you can slam into the weakened objective force he has.
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Old 03 Mar 2009, 15:47   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: How to Deal with Shooty MCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigToof
I'm just not sure what to do about this strategy, as he sets up his buildings to block Loota LOS, and castles all of the MCs together.
This raises a red flag for me. Do you place terrain after you've decided table edge, or are you letting him set up terrain in the first place?

We had a death guard player who used to set up terrain to his advantage like this. I (and others at our store) considered it very unsporting and we've since instituted a "third party setup" rule in which a neutral third party will set up the terrain.

An alternative would be the good old "scatter die" method. In which players alternate placing terrain like normal and then scatter them 2d6 inches (they stay on a hit). Cuts down on the terrain-hammer, which I feel distracts from the game.
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