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best way to pop armour?
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 21:57   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default best way to pop armour?

Hi everyone,

My wife runs an ork army while I run a Tau army with 2 hamemrheads and 2 DF's. Whats the best way for her army to be able to engage and defeat my armour? Would it be best to run power claws on nearly anything that can take one? Is it best to run a lot of tankbustas ( I haven't been to impressed with them) or would it be best to get a couple battlewagons at least?

My limited understanding so far I understand it that only a strength 4 ork (like a nob etc) would only be able to do a glancing hit on rolls of 6's unless they have an upgrade. So regular mobs of boys would do no damage on my vehicles.

Is this correct or am I missing something?

Thanks

S.M.
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 22:07   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

The Bonesaw is eager to help you.

For an Ork player, CC is the best (read: most reliable) way to deal with armour. Don't forget that most vehicles have a rear armour of 10, and in CC, you automatically hit the rear armour. So, even a lowly Boy can damage a vehicle, thanks to furious charge (3-4 attacks at S4 on charge per Boy are likely to leave more than a slight dent in most vehicles). Also, don't forget that under 5th Edition, you don't automatically need 6s to hit Skimmers - the chance to hit depends on how far they moved, just like any other vehicle.

As regards ranged AT-power, we have numerous options strewn across all FOC-slots; I direct you to this thread here:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=79530.0

Slowpocus Mechanicus did a quite good job at compiling most Ork options. Consensus was that Orks don't have "THE" anti-tank unit (like, for example, the Tau do). Orky anti-tank is more-or-less distributed all across the FOC, and nearly every single unit can provide SOME anti-tank firepower. Note that while this reduces the individual effectivity of AT-firepower, the redundancy means that you can easily afford to loose a single unit - and the larger number of AT-weapons mean that SOMETHING is bound to hit, and do damage.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 00:44   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

I had read through the post, and i didn't want to get it too of target since it was giving viable options. My question is how does an ork boy get the capability of being able to hit enough to do damage to a tank? I simply don't understand the assault rules and how they would help a regular mob. Is it even possible?

I know right now I prioritize my wifes viable anti tank threats and pop them asap. I am trying to find ways of dispersing ti more and giving her mobs the real threat of popping my armour (I don't want to make it an uneven fight before the lock of the dice comes in.)

Thanks
S.M.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 01:16   #4 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

When assaulting a vehicle, you always hit their rear AV (most vehicles have an Rear AV of 10). So, when your Ork Boyz charge, their Furious Charge USR gives them +1 to Strength so they hit the Rear AV on a Strength 4 so you just need to roll a 6 for Armor Penetration to glance the vehicle.

If they vehicle didn't move (pivoting the vehicle on the spot doesn't count as moving), the Orks Boyz will automatically hit the vehicle. If the vehicle move 1"-6", you hit on a 4+. If the vehicle move more than 7", you hit on 6.

Orks being the Horde Army they are; Ork Boy mobs tend to be about 20 to 30-strong. And if those Ork Boyz are armed with Slugga and Choppas, they get 4 attacks on the charge. Let's say a full size Slugga Boy Mob with 1 Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole and 29 Slugga Boyz (No 'Eavy Weapons here as you can see). When you charge the vehicle, you will get 4 Strength 9 Attacks from the Nob and 116 Strength 4 Attacks from your Slugga Boyz (this is assuming that all your Boyz are within reach of the vehicle e.g. 2" away from the Boy in base-to-base contact with the vehicle). Now this is where it gets tricky:

[hr]

If the vehicle didn't move at all,
116 Strength 4 Attacks hit the vehicle,
(On average and rounded up) 19 Glances,
(On average and rounded up) 3 Immobilized Result, 3 Weapons Destroyed Result, 3 Crew Stunned Result and 10 Crew Shaken Result.

Final Result: Vehicle Destroyed - Wrecked Result

If the vehicle move 1"-6",
58 Strength 4 Attacks hit the vehicle,
(On average and rounded up) 10 Glances,
(On average and rounded up) 2 Immobilized Result, 2 Weapons Destroyed Result, 2 Crew Stunned Result and 4 Crew Shaken Result.

Final Result: A pretty useless vehicle and at worst, Vehicle Destroyed - Wreck.

If the vehicle move more than 7",
19 Strength 4 Attacks hit the vehicle,
(On average and rounded up) 3 Glances,
(On average and rounded up) 0.5 Immobilized Result, 0.5 Weapons Destroyed Result, 0.5 Crew Stunned Result and 1.5 Crew Shaken Result.

Final Result - At most, your vehicle get Immobilized and/or Weapon Destroyed.

[hr]

And this doesn't even count the Power Klaw in which you hit on a Strength 9 so you either automatically glance the vehicle or have a 5 in 6 chance of scoring a Penetrating hit. So, an Ork Boy Mob itself is an Anti-Tank Weapon! Ork doesn't seem to have an obvious Anti-Tank weapon but you have to realize that Orks are meant to go head-to-head in Close Combat and that includes assaulting a vehicle. And yes, I know it's Mathhammer...but I have seen many, many vehicles getting pop or reduce to uselessness just because it has been assaulted by a mob of Ork Boyz.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 07:48   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

I have only one thing to add to Zenai:

Beware of exploding vehicles! They are the bane of every Ork units, especially since they are usually bunched up to the side of the vehicle they were attacking. Note: CC against vehicle is not ENTIRELY risk-free!

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 07:51   #6 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw
I have only one thing to add to Zenai:

Beware of exploding vehicles! They are the bane of every Ork units, especially since they are usually bunched up to the side of the vehicle they were attacking. Note: CC against vehicle is not ENTIRELY risk-free!

Cheers,
-Bone
Actually, by using the Ork Boyz only and stacking up the Immobilized and Weapon Destroyed result, you can get a Vehicle Destroyed - Wreck result so it's not that risky unless you really want the vehicle to be destroyed. So, I suggest is let your Boyz have their go first and if they failed to take out the vehicle, your Nob with his Power Klaw might be able to do it. Furthermore, this is following Initiative
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 07:55   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

Not sure that would work Zenai. Pretty sure you have to attack with everything that can attack, no holding back. Don't know the page number, but I'll see if I can find something on that.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 07:58   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoutfox
Not sure that would work Zenai. Pretty sure you have to attack with everything that can attack, no holding back. Don't know the page number, but I'll see if I can find something on that.
Yes, but attacks are made in Inititiative order. First, Boys attack. If they wreck the vehicle, the Nob has no more target.

Still, Zenai, chances of destroying the vehicle with Boys is very slim. Ususlly, you WON'T get 20-30 Boys into C, more like 10 (either from a Trukk, or the survivors of footslogging) and a Nob. More likely, Boys damage vehicle, Nob slices it open completely.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 08:00   #9 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CmdrBonesaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoutfox
Not sure that would work Zenai. Pretty sure you have to attack with everything that can attack, no holding back. Don't know the page number, but I'll see if I can find something on that.
Yes, but attacks are made in Inititiative order. First, Boys attack. If they wreck the vehicle, the Nob has no more target.

Still, Zenai, chances of destroying the vehicle with Boys is very slim. Ususlly, you WON'T get 20-30 Boys into C, more like 10 (either from a Trukk, or the survivors of footslogging) and a Nob. More likely, Boys damage vehicle, Nob slices it open completely.

Cheers,
-Bone
In any case, most if not all Ork players will just swing their Power Klaw anyway just for the heck of it.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 08:08   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: best way to pop armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenai
In any case, most if not all Ork players will just swing their Power Klaw anyway just for the heck of it.
Exactly. I mean, who cannot imagine the Nob muscling his way to the front, hefting his Klaw: "Let me do dat one, Ladz..." <Kaboom>
Apart from that, I really like to use Big Choppas, which also attack in Initiative order before the Boys (and 4 S7 attacks are still enough to slice open the average vehicle).

Cheers,
-Bone
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