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Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 13:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

Hi All,
Sorry to bring this up, as I know there's already a few Deffkopta guides about, but I've been having a hard time keeping the DK's alive past the first round. I know somehow, they should be surviving, (They're T5, W2, with the option to Turbo for goodness sakes), but for some reason they never ever last more than one round, either due to failing a morale check or being blown up. As they are rather expensive, and are only a few models for a KP, I'd like to keep them around... at least more than a round...
If anyone has any ideas, I would be glad to hear them.

Best,
-BT
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 14:00   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

The common way to field these is either in a full unit of 5 or in 3 separate units of 1 each. This will help you get around morale for losses. I'm not sure how you're playing them, but make sure you're making use of cover. Only make yourself visible when it's time to pop off some shots. If you aren't going to be able to make any shots then make sure you're turbo boosting for the save. I don't think there's any big secrets with the Koptas, you just have to be patient and wait for an opportunity, don't just charge up the board because you're fast and hope you make your saves.
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 14:04   #3 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

My Deffkopta never made it pass their first turn on the table :P Anyway, I agree with what Thor suggested. Anyway, how you setup your Deffkopta.....currently?
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 14:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

Additionally, if you're having really bad luck with the Koptas then use them as a distraction since they seem to draw a lot of fire. In this case I'd field them in 3 separate units with 1 each, no sense losing a full unit of 5 as a distraction. If you use them as a distraction then make sure you have some more reliable anti-armor in your list to make up for their inevitable loss.

Also, as I'd said in another thread about your same problem, have you tried outflanking with them? If you don't get first turn then consider putting them in reserve to outflank. Ideally you'll come in off your enemy's edge and see some rear armor. If you come in off your edge then it's no big deal because A) they're still alive and it's at least turn 2 and B) they are fast and can get where they need to in short order.
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 17:03   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

I have three of the little mates right now (used to have 9, but I had to get the Nob Bikers from somewhere...), and I've tried spreading them out. Having 3 groups of 1 always hurts in KP games...
In any case, I have done outflanking with a group of three and it works well.
I'm not complaining that they don't survive long enough to get their shots off, but well... you know... not much past that (even with Turbo)... I'm always aghast to discover a new ignore cover save weapon or AP4 weapon out there. Or you know... flanking genestealers...
<blink thought> You know, has anyone ever tried running the DKs into a S3 group like IG? I figure it might buy you a few rounds of protection, as S3 is woeful at hitting and wounding T5 (especially with two wounds...)

Best,
-BT
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 17:14   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

I have been fielding two to three DeffKoptas in every game I play at the store of late. An regardless of if the mission is Killpoints or Objective based they always make their points back. I only feild them in squads of 1 on top of that. Yes in killpoints that means I'm giving up two more but that is only if they are destroyed. I do however get the chance at killing two or three different units unlike your squad of 3. On top of that I tend to keep them in resever more times than not when killpoints are rolled up. This protects them and then gives them the bonus of getting an easy side or rear shot. In objective based games I will put on on the board and outflank the other one or two. The one on the board will turbo boost during its scout move. This gets my opponents attention and that is exactly what I want. On my turn I just keep turbo boosting this kopta thus making an excellent distraction for the rest of the army. Go ahead and unload on this kopta he is meant to die and now you let my boyz close the ground and soon they will be in close cbt. The other thing you can do to protect them is to assualt small units like tau sniper teams, IG squads and any other low model count unit that is not that great in close cbt. This now prevents those units from firing and once again lets your boyz close the gap. Its not about winning or killing with these models its about distracting and taking those pot shot when you get the chance. The best part is a last turn tubo boost on to an objective and thus contest it and steal the win from your opponent.
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 17:57   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigToof
I have three of the little mates right now ...
1. You unit size about is probably one of the biggest issues. 1 OR 5 is the way to go, this helps counter-act their poor LD.
2. Tactics, you WILL have to use them differently depending on your opponent.
2a. Against a CC army stand them FAR back (Evesor 6"+12" charge hurts) you've got a 24" range after all!
2b. Against a shooty army keep Turbo-ing them, and keep them out of rapid fire range. This will make them much tougher AND if they to die, they've been the distraction you've been looking for for the rest of your boys to close in on them!
3. I have heard (but not seen) people talking about tying down S3 groups in CC with 5-strong groups with them.

Don't forget: Most people know these things kick bottom, so use THAT fear. If they're drawing fire then that's a good thing for some-one else!
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 18:03   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

I have tied up a 5 man IG guard squad being lead by a junior officer for 3 turns of Combat. Neither of us could inflict an unsaved wound for the life of us which was fine by me. I have also won combat agaist a Tau Sniper Drone Team. I killed one drone from shooting and then two more in Close Cbt. After which he failed his morale test.
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 18:04   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

Honestly if they are dying your trukks are not, so win win really. My rokkitkoptas actually made it into the end of the game against my last eldar opponenet, but my buzzkoptas were taken out as soon as possible. The buzzkoptas were able to wipe out a pathfinder unit, and take a ton of fire before they were killed, which is fine by me. Let my trukks get up close and dump thier boyz off safely.

I've read about others making each kopta unique to take advantage of the wound allocation system as well. It may make them slightly more combat-ineffective, but will keep them alive longer. You could try something like this:

1: TLRL, big bomm
2: TLRL
3: Buzzsaw

This would be an anti tank unit. First turn they can turbo over some infantry unit and drop the bomm. Then next turn fire the rokkits at a tank, and if that doesn't kill it you charge and hope to tear it apart with the buzzsaw.
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Old 03 Feb 2009, 18:14   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Evasive Tactics for Deffkoptas Needed!

Stop flying them into bullets? ???

[hr]

Kidding aside, GW always says to use about 25% terrain. But what that terrain consists of will have a big effect. If it is all low stuff, I would have a harder time trying to section off how much of the enemy could draw LOS to the rather elevated Deffkopta models. If you are playing with larger structures, you might be able to control LOS so that you can restrict what can fire back at you as much as possible.

Right now I have six of them. I was planning on running all of them with Rokkits, but just from reading this I think I will add Buzzsaws to two of them.
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