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Orks overpowered?
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 01:39   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Orks overpowered?

I just got home from another warhammer game, and beat the pants off a guard player, and an eldar player. This is the third win in a row for me against guard, and the guard player, was being rather rude by the end of the game. He was complaining about how his lasguns suck, how he needs a new codex, and that my ork shoota boys, were better than even the hellguns that his kasarkyn fielded. Most of all, He, and the eldar player complained about my orks being overpowered. For my combat patrol I ran two squads of forty twenty shoota boys, each with two big shootas. And one eleven boy squad in a trukk, and a killa kan with a big shoota. My question to you then, are these players just sore losers, or did the new codex really beef up my orks in comparison to the new armies?
Apologies if there are many similar threads.
Cheers,
Magistellis.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 01:42   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

They did, in fact, receive a huge, much-needed boost (and awesome new models to boot, also much-deserved). I'm not sure exactly how to pinpoint the real "problem" with Orks, though, I've seen people complain about just everything. They're like the new Eldar, just fielding an army of them makes people groan and refuse to play you.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 01:55   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

I just bought the new codex a month ago, at the shop I was playing in. After deployment, we decided to use the new rules. I couldn't believe my shoota boyz had 18'' Assault 2 weapons! Neither could my opponent, and after the dust cleared, his dark eldar ran away crying. after that, I ripped some arms off my old slugga boyz, and added some shootas. Even though I love my orks, I think my basic boys may be too good in comparison to other troops.
Cheers,
Magistellis
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 02:01   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

Well, let's analyze some of this for a bit, shall we?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistellis
He was complaining about how his lasguns suck, how he needs a new codex,
Yes, Guard do need a new codex. But I sincerely doubt that they'll be getting "better" Lasguns. If your opponent is trying to win with Lasguns, well, that's why he's losing.

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and that my ork shoota boys, were better than even the hellguns that his kasarkyn fielded.
Simply not correct. If I take a unit of 10 Karskins (100 points) and a unit of 10 Ork Ard Boy Shootas (100 points and just to even out armor) we'll see the following effects:

1) Karskin's have a better range but a slight disadvantage in terms of rate of fire between 13 & 18".

2) The Shoota boyz are more mobile between 13 & 18" and in terms of firing and charging.

3) 10 Karskins rapid firing at T4 models will hit with 13.34 shots, 4.44 wounds. The Orks will assault fire 20 shots with 6.66 hits and 3.33 wounds. So, no, Orks are not better at shooting than Karskins.

Quote:
Most of all, He, and the eldar player complained about my orks being overpowered. For my combat patrol I ran two squads of forty shoota boys, each with two big shootas. And one eleven boy squad in a trukk, and a killa kan with a big shoota. My question to you then, are these players just sore losers, or did the new codex really beef up my orks in comparison to the new armies?
Orks are not overpowered. Eldar are a tough list to play...especially at low points games. Guard are hard to play against new codexes because they're behind on the times. But a tweaked out Eldar or Guard list should be able to handle just about any Ork list.

In the future, if you have a player whining about an "overpowered" list, trade lists and play. Often, if a player can get a "feel" for another list, he can learn to counter it and, appreciate its weaknesses.

Yes, Ork shoota boyz are great. But they also have horrible leadership and terrible armor. So there is a trade off. There is always a trade off (unless you play Space Marines :P ). That's what keeps things balanced.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 02:12   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

I saw a rumor on Warseer that those same Dark Eldar might be getting Assault 2 weapons as well. There are others flying around about poisoned splinter cannons and other nasty stuff as well, so his codex could be getting the same boost very soon.
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Originally Posted by Redbeard
Knowing the rules is not WAAC. Bringing tough lists is not WAAC. Acting within the scope of the rules is not WAAC.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 02:21   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

Thank you both for the very fast, responses, as well for the kasarkyn correction.
My guard friend was playing with 2 chimeras, with 2 heavy bolters and a heavy stubber on each, 2 troops of 10 guard, a basic command squad, and an adeptus mechanicus ( or something like that, I don't know.. They fix tanks.) Are the ork big shootas really that much better than IG heavy bolters?
-Magistellis.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 02:56   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistellis
Thank you both for the very fast, responses, as well for the kasarkyn correction.
My guard friend was playing with 2 chimeras, with 2 heavy bolters and a heavy stubber on each, 2 troops of 10 guard, a basic command squad, and an adeptus mechanicus ( or something like that, I don't know.. They fix tanks.) Are the ork big shootas really that much better than IG heavy bolters?
-Magistellis.
So my question is, how did he not win? Even his Heavy Bolters could tank your Killa Can. I would have stood and shot if I were him. He could have easily killed an average of 6 Orks a turn just with his Chimeras. The Karskin could kill ~5 per turn. So with some target priority, he might have popped your killa kan and your trukk on turn one then stood and shot as you tried to footslog across the board. It would have been hard but it wouldn't have been impossible.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 03:15   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

Quote:
and after the dust cleared, his dark eldar ran away crying
Even though Dark Eldar have not had a new codex in awhile they are still a very tough army in the right hands. Had your friend just used Destructors and Shredders you would have a tough battle. Thing is, a lot of DE players are still building anti-meq lists despite the influx of new Ork players.

Orks are not overpowered. Some tournaments had a lot of Orks in the top echelons. Other major tournaments had a lot of Chaos, some Tyranids and even Eldar. Depended a lot on the meta it seems. Orks are very good now. No doubt about it. However, you were playing combat patrol! Orks really are a BIT OVERPOWERED at low point levels. Even with the old codex I could field Feral Orks in combat patrol and win an ungodly percentage of games.

Play some games at 1750 - 2500 points against other good armies and your results will vary. Trust me.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 03:29   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

I'd love to play a 1500pt. game I just moved here, to Nova-Scotia, and there's only two people that I know who play warhammer. ( the guys at the local store are too stuck-up) and they feel that lower point games are funner.
So until i find some bigger games, I get my fix by reading BigToof's battle reports and trolling the heck out of this site. In response to Aureus: I'm as kunnin' as a gretchin. And I had Gork and Mork looking over my shoulder. so, cover saves, and close combat. My kan ran up and punched his chimera in the face, and thats that.
Take care,
Magistellis.
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Old 31 Jan 2009, 04:53   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Orks overpowered?

You said you ran two squads of 40 shoota boyz? Do you mean two 20 ork squads for a total of 40 or two 40 ork squads for a total of 80?
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