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The Bustawagon
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 16:25   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Default The Bustawagon

Hi All,
Just had an idea floating around my head that I wanted to pitch out there:
I've recently had a bit of a bad run-in with a 3 Soul Grinder army, and it got me thinking about a respectable way to deal with Shooty Dreads and Tanks in general. As orks, I'm sure I don't need to tell anyone that we suffer vs Mech/Tread armies compared to other races (at range that is). By the time we get into PK range, the Dread/Tank has already gotten his points back and more (3 pie-plates=broken mob). We seem to have a great long-range option for taking out tanks, namely the Tankbustas, but they suffer from a number of things:
First and foremost is their Glory Hogs rule. Which means that they can't run as they must always try to shoot at vehicles if they're out of range. This makes them incredibly slow in 5th ed. Also, as they only move 6", it becomes very easy for the enemy to predict their range and move their tanks/walkers back while still pelting the army. And if that isn't bad enough, it's mere simplicity for them to throw an empty vehicle into play and watch the Tankbusters get distracted for that crucial turn...
Second is their size/price. Being expensive units with a maximum size of 15, it does not take much to knock down the unit. A good volley of shots will easily make them run. As they can't maneuver much (see above) it makes it hard for them to run from cover to cover...

These two reasons have lead me to create "The Bustawagon."
12 Tankbustas in a Battlewagon w/ Killkannon, RPJ, Deffrolla and Big Shoota.

Now how does this help? It seems awfully expensive to just give the Bustas a ride, but actually, it solves quite a bit of problems.

1. Movement: The Tankbustas' Glory Hog rule only comes in on the shooting/assault phases. As being able to move up to 13" a turn, you can dictate pretty much how the unit will fire. In addition, as long as the unit stays on board, they can't assault or be assaulted And if something gets too close, you can simply back away and pepper it with firepower (like CC dreads or non-flying MCs)

2. Protection: Now that you have a mobile rokkit firebase, it will come under fire. Luckily, most tanks can't move very much and still fire, so you'll be able to tilt yourself to get the best angles for AP facing. AP14 is wonderful against most things that would normally splatter the Tanksbusters.

3. Why the Killkannon? One thing I was wondering about was: What is the best purpose of this unit? Granted, the Killkannon won't be much help vs things like AP13 Vindicators or Soul Grinders, but they work wonders vs Transports! A unit of 12 Tankbusters will get about 2 penetrating hits and 1 glance on your average AP11 vehicle. After the crew piles out, you can then hit them with the Killkannon! The disembarked unit will be close together and with a large pie-plate you can usually fit them all in. Also, the Killkannon's range is 24", which is the same as your rokkits, so you don't have any "wasted range shots." Also, the Killkannon will help vs hordes, which the Tankbusters' rokkits would be of little use for. And of course, as ordinance, if the Tankbusters can't kill it with Rokkits, then rolling 2d6/pick highest certainly helps!

4. Getting Assaults: I have yet to see a Tankbuster squad getting off a successful assault. Most vehicles can outmaneuver the footsloggers or blow up their Trukk/Looted Wagon. With a BATTLEWAGON, however, the chances of their successful deployment gets much better. With a Tankhammer and Tankbombs, even the Land Raider has to get worried. And well, the Deffrolla is there for a reason

5. Disadvantages: At almost 375 pts its a costly big unit that can be virtually disabled with a good melta shot (bringing a KFF friend might be a necessity ). Could Lootaz do a better job vs transports? Maybe. But for ranged, anti-tank, this might be the Orks' only hope... At least it's an option

C&C greatly appreciated!

Best,
-BT
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 16:58   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

Something worth mentioning. There was a thread a while back about how far a vehicle can move and the occupants fire out of it. We all seemed to agree that it's only a 6" move, not 12". For reference, pg. 66 under Fire Points. There is nothing to state it's otherwise for a fast open-topped vehicle.
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 17:03   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

Way to expensive for one anti tank squad. Dam even 5 deffkoptas come in cheaper than these guys. The biggest downside is what thor said about the wagon only being able to move 6" or less so the tankbustas can fire.
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 17:19   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

Just did the cost. Your suggestion weighs in at a minimal of 360pts for the BW and Tankbustas (without a Nob since you didn't mention one). Like Hyena said, you could get 5 Deffkoptas w/t-linked rokkits on the field for less than that and still have enough points left to field some Warbuggies/Trakks with t-linked rokkits, and still have spent less points then your idea. I'd rather have the fast moving vehicles that can position for side and rear shots than I would a loaded BW with Tankbustas in it moving 6" a turn.
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 18:15   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

Thank you all for your inputs!
Very true regarding the 6" move (7" w/ RPJ). I didn't forget the post in any way. Heavens knows that my Burnawagon lives and dies by this rule.
I was only putting in that you could move 13" so that you could move them into a better position, especially on turn one if there's nothing within range.
I ALSO like Deffkoptas, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them, just that I'm trying to find a better alternative, as for some reason people just keep killing them and its just painful in KP-type missions...
And umm... I also came into possession of a group of Tankbustas recently, and I really really want to try and use them to do something...

Best,
-BT
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 18:42   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

Silly question: Has anyone tried running Tankbustas in a Trukk ("borrowed" from a unit of Trukkboys on the table) or Looted Wagon?
Much cheaper but easy to be destroyed, but still... MUCH CHEAPER.

Thanks,
-BT
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 18:48   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

I have not used tankbustas since the new ork codex came out. Reason just way to many better options out there these days. Try 3-6 Kannons with full extra crew, ammo runts and a slaver. A battery of 3 with the full meal deal goes for 97pts. Really how can you go wrong with these guys. The best part is that they are grots so they hit better and they get 3 time re rolls to hit. Most opponents leave these little buggers alone since they don;t look threaten. They will change their mind once you pop something but by then they have made their points back. If you can put them in cover you have it made. Point for Point I truely believe they are the best anti tank option for orks. An added bonus is that they can fire with the small blast for anti horde if needed. All around they are one of our best units and most under rated units.
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 18:58   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyena031
I have not used tankbustas since the new ork codex came out. Reason just way to many better options out there these days. Try 3-6 Kannons with full extra crew, ammo runts and a slaver. A battery of 3 with the full meal deal goes for 97pts. Really how can you go wrong with these guys. The best part is that they are grots so they hit better and they get 3 time re rolls to hit. Most opponents leave these little buggers alone since they don;t look threaten. They will change their mind once you pop something but by then they have made their points back. If you can put them in cover you have it made. Point for Point I truely believe they are the best anti tank option for orks. An added bonus is that they can fire with the small blast for anti horde if needed. All around they are one of our best units and most under rated units.
That's a great idea!
I had totally forgotten the Big gunz!
Now how am I going to get 3 Kannons... hmm... (affixes 3 random large weapons to wheels and throws them on a 40mm base). Done!
(Sadly enough I just crunched the numbers and the 3 Kannons with re-rolls get almost as many S8 hits as the 12 Tankbustas...)

Thanks again for the suggestion! I'm going to test fire them (hopefully very soon) and see how they do. Sadly enough I guess the Tankbustas will just be shelved for right now (sniff...)

Best,
-BT
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Old 30 Jan 2009, 20:04   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The Bustawagon

I also haven't touched Tankbustas since the codex update for many reasons. In short, they just aren't worth 15pts a model to me any longer.

If you have a problem losing your Koptas early then try outflanking them. It may not be feasible depending on your list, but if you have enough threat and ability to handle the first few turns without them, toss'em into reserves and try outflanking. Even if they come in on the wrong side, they still move fast and hopefully you've presented the enemy with scarier targets and you can slip them right in.
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