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Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 05:06   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

This thread will be for the Elite options

Nobz
Meganobz
Burna Boyz
Tankbustas
Lootas
Kommandos

Toss in your 2 cents the more people chime in their experiences, the more informative the thread will be.

Discuss your own tactics and experiences with them under 5th edition.
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 13:07   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Here's my view on Nob Bikerz:

[hr]

I've used Nob Bikers a lot on VASSAL. They're fast and 'ard as well as able to deliver a good ol' krumpin'. Their T(4)5, 4+ Armor/Cover Save, 5+ Invulnerable Save and FNP USR are able to shrugged off most weapons like Rapid Firing weapons such as Pulse Rifles and Boltguns as well as High AP Heavy Weapons such as Heavy Bolters and Scatter Lasers.

In most situations, you wanna get them as close as possible to the nearest target. This will force your opponent to consider whether is it worth it to deploy near these Hammerz. And at the same time, giving your Nob Bikerz as near as possible to be able to shoot their Dakkaguns and assault if they're within range. But most of the time, your target is out of range and if you're playing against Armies like Imperial Guard or Space Marines, there's a High Strength and/or Low AP and/or Template weapon waiting for your Nob Bikerz at the other end so to get them as close as possible and at the same time, get better protection. It is often necessary to Turbo-boost. That 3+ Cover Save is gonna help out A LOT especially when you don't want your Nob Bikerz to be blown to bits.

For Nob Biker's Wargear, do not, and I repeat, do not waste points on Kombi-weapons or TL Shootas as your Dakkaguns are good enough Range Weapons and your points are better spent elsewhere. I know having all of them with PK is attractive and alluring but sometimes taking Big Choppas is just as good as well as a cheaper alternative when you need some spare points. I say upgrade one Nob with PK and the rest with Big Choppas. I know people say the basic Choppa is good but wounding most units on a 2+ and glancing most vehicles on a 4+ (3+ if you charged) is just too attractive for just a measly 5 points. Waaagh! Banner is a very good upgrade and I say it's totally worth it to hit most units on a 3+ and wounding them on a 2+ with my Big Choppas. Another good thing Big Choppa has over the basic Choppa is that I can Instant-Gib a GEQ IC. 'Eavy Armor is a total waste since the Warbike upgrade gives you a 4+ Armor Save anyway. Bosspole is good on a Nob with the PK too unless you want to attach a Warboss on Warbike (which I recommend especially with Nob Bikerz) in which you give the Warboss the Bosspole upgrade. Ammo Runt is kinda redundant as you can already re-roll failed Rolls to Hit with your Dakkaguns that are Twin-Linked.

Painboy is a MUST. This is the very element that will turn your Nob Biker from Killing Machine to God-Killers. Cybork is a MUST as well as you will likely go up against opponents with Power weapons and/or Power Fists. That lucky 5+ Invulnerable Save might spell the difference between Victory or running away like a 'oomie. Grot Orderly is good too when you have that bad FNP roll that will kill your precious model.

Nob Bikerz are able to hold on their own but they can also Spearhead an Ork Assault on your opponent's line. Smashing away with Choppas and PK. Though an expensive unit, you will still have enough points to get 3 Mobs of Boyz (if you're playing Large Games, of course). Your opponent will have to decide whether to concentrate on the Nob Bikerz or the 3 Mobs of Boyz. He will either concentrate on one or the other or try to handle both in any case might prove difficult for him if he doesn't have the right units and/or tactics to deal with them.
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 17:28   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

*Sigh*

Well, first off, we already have a thread that is dedicated to the tactics of Orks as it pertains to the new 5th Edition rule set. Stickied, no less. I believe that all discussion of tactics, not part of an individual list, as they relate with the overall composition of certain lists, should be kept in one place. If you have anything to say about tactics, say it there.
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 19:21   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Quote:
Originally Posted by ˇRastafari Is!
*Sigh*

Well, first off, we already have a thread that is dedicated to the tactics of Orks as it pertains to the new 5th Edition rule set. Stickied, no less. I believe that all discussion of tactics, not part of an individual list, as they relate with the overall composition of certain lists, should be kept in one place. If you have anything to say about tactics, say it there.
Then please point me to that stickied thread because if you are referring to this one "ORK TACTICA - NEW CODEX" by IVEATCH I read through it and saw a lot of 4th edition being mentioned but no 5th edition.

I would love to read tactica and opinions about 5th edition and 5th edition only as that is the only one relevant (for me at least) currently.
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 22:19   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Yes that was exactly what I was referencing. And yes, it is 5th edition. It has numerous references to the new Ork Codex. If you are talking about the new rulebook, I hardly think that it warrants 5 new threads dedicated to new tactics for each individual FOC slot. If you think 5th Edition rules deserve that much of a change (which I completely disagree with- they aren't all that different, and I don't believe that many people are taking too drastic of measure to completely revamp their tactics just because a new Rulebook came out), then, please, lets limit it to only one thread. Or an even better idea would be to simply post in Iveatch's original post.
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 22:40   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Quote:
Originally Posted by ˇRastafari Is!
Yes that was exactly what I was referencing. And yes, it is 5th edition. It has numerous references to the new Ork Codex. If you are talking about the new rulebook, I hardly think that it warrants 5 new threads dedicated to new tactics for each individual FOC slot. If you think 5th Edition rules deserve that much of a change (which I completely disagree with- they aren't all that different, and I don't believe that many people are taking too drastic of measure to completely revamp their tactics just because a new Rulebook came out), then, please, lets limit it to only one thread. Or an even better idea would be to simply post in Iveatch's original post.
The new ork codex came out before the 5th edition rulebook my friend.
The thread is definetly about the newest codex, however the tactics are for 4th edition rules.

That is the difference in when I ask for '5th edition tactica'.

One example of this is the use of Waagh. The codex says you gain Fleet of Foot special rule when you declare a Waagh.

However Fleet of Foot has changed from 4th edition to 5th edition. You no longer roll a D6 for 'Fleet' during the shooting phase. So tactics that tell you any kind of strategy based around the D6 roll for Fleet are dated.

And also tactics about any kind of blast weapons should be revised under 5th edition and the list just goes on and on. Now please unless you can point me to a thread that is for 5th edition tactics, feel free to contribute to the thread with your own 2 cents on tactics and strategy with the current rulebook (again not the 4th edition rulebook) or just don't say anything and let others continue to contribute. I'm a noob to Orks and this definetly helps me out.

Carry on.
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Old 20 Dec 2008, 23:16   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Quote:
The new ork codex came out before the 5th edition rulebook my friend.
Yes, I am well aware of this. I wasn't born yesterday, and have been playing Ork's for three years now...

If you are as new to the race as you say you are, then you shouldn't be worrying over such insignificant issues such as the distance that you can move under the influence of a WAAAGH!. That is an extremely specialized and advanced rule that you have brought up. If you are new to the Orkoid race, then my suggestion is this; read Iveatch's tactica to shore up on your basics. For all we know, you might not know the difference between a Yoof and a Nob. Please give us an approximation of you comprehension of the Ork race and then we may be able to help you.

Also, you may want to narrow down your request. I really don't feel like spending an entire day writing down tactics for you when you may not even utilize them in your army. This is sort of an obscure request but if you narrow down your list to the units that you are interested in knowing about and that you may use in your list then I may be enticed aid you a bit. Right now you are asking for a gigantic amount of information and the chances of you receiving an comprehensive list of tactics for all of units you have list is second to none.
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Old 21 Dec 2008, 03:42   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Quote:
second to none.
That's the wrong use of the phrase. 'Close to nil' would've been more appropiate.

In any case you are correct i am indeed a beginner with Orks only having played 3 games, 1 free for all and 2 1-on-1 vs Imperial Guard on which I managed to get draws (i'm having a hard time beating them)

See this thread if you want to give me some pointers: Orks vs Guard Help

So once more, I am a beginner with Orks but not to 40k. I'm a veteran with Tyranids and writen a LOT about them on the tyranid board to help newer players. And IMO there is a significant difference from 4th to 5th edition, I completely discard my 4th edition ideologies because they simply don't work in 5th. And I am in fact the type of player that does worry about those little details and I try to give anyone reading through any 'tactics' or whatever that I post a full breakdown even if they don't end up using all of it because it is just good to have 'just in case'.

That's like when you buy a car you need the 5th wheel in the trunk in case your car breaks down. Even if it never does, you know it's there just in case.

And yes I am asking for a lot of information, of which I intend to read through, the same way I was reading through that huge 'new codex' tactica for '4th edition' until I realized that this was made with 4th edition in mind and stopped reading and looking for something more updated.

Maybe i'm just the type of person that likes to have his anti-virus updated daily to stay ahead of the curve, instead of settling for an ad-ware remover. I dunno how else I can say this, but if you really want to help someone I think that giving them outdated information, or worst yet not giving them all the information that you 'can', is doing them a great disservice. In which case I rather you not try to help at all

Just because i'm new, doesn't mean I wouldn't comprehend your explanation as 'advanced' as you may think they may be. Nor does it mean that I would be overwhelmed by a huge amount of good information. I'm interested in EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN THE CODEX because i'm new and have no idea what works well, so far I have about 1600 points with upgrades, before I improve my army more I want to read learn more about all my options and see which one I really want to add after.

I hope this clears this misunderstanding, that we seem to be having here and that you regard me as someone that is actually trying to learn as much as he can and seeking help not crutches or training wheels.
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Old 21 Dec 2008, 03:46   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Well, Akaiyou did said he wanted people's opinion and experience as he already did read the various Tacticas but feels that he needs a second opinion. I think the title just put people off :P
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Old 21 Dec 2008, 18:00   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ork Strategy & Tactics - 5th Edition - Elites

Well, in that case, I'll try and help. There are a vast amount of selections when it comes to playing an Ork army. Do you have a list? What type of army are you focusing on (Foot Slogging, Ravensquig, Deffwing, etc.)? There are a plethora of tactics that depend upon these questions. If you are footslogging, you need to take out pie-plates and template weapons that have the ability of cutting swaths of infantry out of your ranks. If you are playing Deffwing, focus on squadron that have AP 2 or high strength weapons. Tactics all depend, really, on your style of play and the composition of your list.

And, as a side note, I stand by what I said about all 5 threads should be merged into one. It would condense the amount of information you would receive and make it easier for you to sift through the information that you do get.

Now, this is not a post that is solely focused on Elites. Its, for the most part, about army composition and list building. Lets get started.

Advantages and Disadvantages of Playing Footsloggers

Footslogging is most probably the most common Orkoid army that you will see on the battlefields of the 40k universe. There is a copious amount of reason behind this fact, both in terms of fluff usage and tactical proficiency. Orks are a simple race, being attracted to booze, guns, dirty combustion engines, and killing in general. All they need is a crude gun and a dull blade and they are transformed into the perfect killing machine. This is evident in the Footslogging philosophy. Footslogging allows for the most leeway when it come to the tactical skills of the commander, allowing for the player to loose vast amounts of warm-bodies and still maintain a high body count. This is a great start for any new Ork commander, and provides a great basis to build up to more advanced Ork oriented tactics.

Advantages
  • Huge body count. The basic Ork boy is a great point-output unit. Will be able to use the "swamp 'em" tactic to high success.
  • Basically, will able to handle nearly every threat that will occur on any given battle field. They can be tailor made to meet any threat, being able to utilized the hidden Power Klaw to great effect. Can be made to be either close combat oriented or can provide a great, if inaccurate, firing line. But the sheer out put of shots, you're bound to hit something.
  • While the bulk of the enemy army is focused on the huge mass of swarming, green limbs, you are free to preform flanking maneuvers, getting squads of MAO (Mega Armored Orks) in to close combat, and ripping the throat out of the enemy.
  • A great base to build up an army. Huge room for change. You could throw in a mechanized division or an element of Ravensquig in there for a great flanking element.
  • One of the best assault army's out there. Getting them in to close combat, point for point, they will outdo any basic combat troop out there.

Disadvantages
  • Extremely vulnerable to Template Weapons
  • They are plants, so they burn very easily. Be wary of flame heavy such as Sisters of Battle and certain Imperial Guard armies.
  • Low leadership. Mob Rule (don't have my Codex right now. I believe that's what its called) counterbalances this to a certain extent.

All in all, a great army to start out with.

Advantages and Disadvantages of Playing Ravensquig

Speed demons and diesel addicts, the Ravensquig are the bikers of the Ork Race. Before we get started on any advantages and disadvantages, there are some minimum requirements that you need to know before making any decisions on playing Ravensquig.

Pure Ravensquig- Made up entirely of bikes. There are two different ways that you can go about doing this. These two options are depicted below.

1) 2 Warbosses, equipped with bikes, leading the army. These guys can be outfitted a number of ways, depending on the situation at hand. Dead Hard no matter what way you look at it. The Troop choices are occupied with Nob Bikers, and, depending on the point limit, so are the Elite Slots. Fast Attack are occupied with Normal Bikers, and Deffkoptas. Heavy Support must be kept to a minimum.

2) Wazdakka Gutzmeg heading the army. A beast in his own right, he has a killer weapon load out. The Troops are the two Normal Bikers that can be included with any army that Wazdakka heads up. The elites are Nob Bikers and the Fast Attack can be either more Bikers or Deffkoptas. Heavy Support should be kept to a minimum.

Hybrid Ravensquig- Basically builds upon the same concept of a fast, dead hard Ork army but is less set in its make up. For example, you may only have one squad of Nob Bikers as an Troop choice, but fill up the organization chart with more boyz.

Advantages
  • Extremely mobile with strong Troop choices. If the Orks were a Doctors office, Footsloggers would be a bone saw and Ravensquig would be the scalpel. Strength relies on their uncanny ability to dart in, hit the enemy where they are weak, and get out.
  • Tanks should pose no problem. They have a bewildering array of weaponry at their disposal to take down these threats, such as Power Klaws, Dakkaguns, and Rokkit Launchas. You could always out run them as well but that just ain't Orky.
  • Two words: Turbo Boost.
  • Has the ability to outflank fairly easily.

Disadvantages
  • Some units, such as Deffkoptas are extremely vulnerable to incoming fire. Use these units sparingly or very smartly, never leave them out in the open.
  • Like the Deffwing, Ravensquig lack adequate numbers. This makes them less effective against horde armies. Always expect to be outnumbered.
  • Every element of the list is expensive.
  • Be wary of the first turn, as you will have to dart forward, leaving the bulk of your army exposed to incoming fire.

A very tactically advanced army. If you don't know what you are doing, you will be dead meat. You can't afford to make the mistakes that you could do with the Footslogging list.

Advantages and Disadvantages of Playing Deffwing

The Mega Armor is the apex of Ork invention. Hulking, imposing, and dead hard, it characterizes everything that is good in a proper Ork. Every Warboss's dream is to have an army of these warriors under his command. Based upon the Deathwing, the First Company of the Dark Angels Space Marines, the Deffwing are to the Deathwing as the Ravensquig are to the Ravenwing. Both revolve upon a completely different force composition than regular Ork armies, the Ravensquig relies on the agile and exceedingly fast performance of Orkoid bikes, while the Deffwing capitalizes on the Orks natural stubbornness and brute strength, while enhancing these natural phenomena with colossal suits of Mega Armor. Both have their advantages and drawbacks.

In order to have a completely and fully Mega Armored army, you must follow these minimum prerequisites.

Key: Mandatory, Optional
[list type=decimal][*]2 Warbosses equipped with Mega Armor[*]Both of the two Troop selections must be made up of MAN squads(Mega Armored Nobs)[*][color=green]No Fast Attack selections may be purchased[color=green][*]Any number of the Elites selections may be occupied by MAN squads[*]The only Heavy Support choice that may be purchased is the Battle Wagon[/list]
There are also many variation of this standard force organization that capitalizes on the sheer strength in Close Combat powers of the MAN. There are less requirements then that of a pure MAN army, but they have to be touched on as well.

Key: Mandatory, Optional
[list type=decimal][*]Any number of Warbosses equipped with Mega Armor[*]Any number (depending upon the number of Mega Armored Warbosses included) of MAN (Mega Armored Nobs) squads occupying your Troop selections[*]Any number of the Elites selections may be occupied by MAN squads[/list]
Of course, in order you stick to the overall feel of a Deffwing army, you will want to have these selections, regardless of whether you are playing a pure Deffwing army, or a hybrid army. These minimums are discussed below.
[list type=decimal][*]At least one MAW (Mega Armored Warboss)[*]At least one MAN squad occupying a Troop selection.[*]At least one MAN squad occupying an Elite selection.[/list]
In order to enhance the comparability to Deathwing, many Deffwing players opt to include Mad Doc Grotsnik and give Cybork Bodies to all of their MAN and MAW squads to add a 5+ invulnerable save to each MAO (Mega Armored Ork). In addition to being extremely fluffy, this also has a huge impact upon the tactical viability of Mega Armored armies. With out this important Invulnerable Save, every MAO is extremely vulnerable to Instant Death Weapons, especially Power Fists. A single Space Marine Sergeant equipped with a Power Fist could feasibly destroy 3 MAO by himself. The addition of a 5+ invulnerable save will circumnavigate this slight set back.

Another variation of the list for the player to include a Warphead as a Headquarter choice, which allows the possibility of the psychic power of ‘Ere We Go to be enacted. This also relates nicely with the Deathwing philosophy, depicting the uncanny habit of Deathwing Terminators to deep strike into battle. Even if you do not make the roll necessary to constitute the ‘Ere We Go rule, the other psychic abilities of a Warphead make it a formidable foe for your enemies.

Advantages
  • Every model will have a godlike +2 save, which will keep your troops alive a lot longer than every other, normally organized army. This is a double-edged sword, for with a low save, always comes a low model count, and Deffwing is no exception. This doesn’t mean that the army will be ineffective or bad, just that it’s tactical options will be extremely limited.
  • The psychological factor. It is very imposing to opponents when you pull up with a single carrying case for a 2000 point battle and field only 25 models.
  • The disadvantage of having an extremely slow army is that it is easily combated with the utilization of agile vehicles. The Trukk is an excellent piece of equipment that should never be overlooked and should always be taken. Never (unless their transport vehicle was blown up) should a MAN be walking, in the Deffwing or even in a regular Ork army.
  • There is a plethora of ideas for fluff that can accompany an army of such individuality of that of the Deffwing. My army, for example, will be based around the leadership of a steampunk-like Mega Armored Warboss who is, in actually a renegade Grot who commandeered the most powerful Dreadnought in his former army, and then enlisted the help of a group of Rebel Grots who command a fairly large contingent of Grot Tanks, my count as Mega Armored Nobs. You are only limited by the extent of your imagination and the amount of time you are willing to put into the development of your army.

Disadvantages
  • Vulnerable to AP 2 weaponry and Insta-Death weapons.
  • Extremely low model count.
  • Lists that normally aren't competitive will be against Deffwing. Deffwing are much more of a fluffy army then a competitive army.

[hr]

As of right now, I only have experience with one list; my Deffwing list. If you want to take a look at it, here it is.

Warboss- 140 Points
  • Mega Armour
  • Cybork body
  • 2 Attack Squigs

Grotsnik- 160 Points

5 Mega Armored Nobs- 395 Points
  • Cybork Bodies
  • Battle Wagon
    • Armor Plates
    • Kannon
    • Deff Rolla
    • Grot Riggers
    • Red Paint Job
    • 3x Rokkit Launchas

5 Mega Armored Nobs- 395 Points
  • Cybork Bodies
  • Battle Wagon
    • Armor Plates
    • Kannon
    • Deff Rolla
    • Grot Riggers
    • Red Paint Job
    • 3x Rokkit Launchas

5 Mega Armored Nobs- 395 Points
  • Cybork Bodies
  • Battle Wagon
    • Armor Plates
    • Kannon
    • Deff Rolla
    • Grot Riggers
    • Red Paint Job
    • 3x Rokkit Launchas

12 Ard Boyz- 205 Points
  • Nob
    • Power Klaw
  • Rokkit Launcha
  • Trukk
    • Rokkit Launcha

Killa Kan- 60 Points
  • Mega Blasta
  • Grot Riggers

Killa Kan- 60 Points
  • Mega Blasta
  • Grot Riggers

Killa Kan- 60 Points
  • Mega Blasta
  • Grot Riggers

~1850

This is the list that I personally am planning on using in most every battle that I play. It builds upon the idea of the pure Mega Armored army; The Battle Wagons spearhead the attack, with the Warboss with one squad of MANs and Grotsnik with the other. The 5 additional MANs are located the last one. The Kans gives you more cheap scoring units, and grot riggers are effective tools to keep them mobile to keep them scoring. The regular troops are Ard Boyz, more expensive, but with sluggas and choppas and a 4+ save they should still be good in melee, with another Power Klaw to tackle monsterous/ leaders/ trouble units. The list should be fairly competitive while retaining its “fun factor” as well.

[hr]

Hope that made up for my previous post that you deemed to be spam.[/list]
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