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mini tactica - sag
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Old 29 Feb 2008, 23:56   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
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Default mini tactica - sag

THE SAG
why should we take it ?

The SAG is just too d##n cool ...

Shokk Attack Guns are massive rift-rending contraptions that are carried into battle by exceptionally warped Big Mekz. The Shokk Attack Gun empitomises the
unique savagery that Orks possess. The device is designed to maintain a hole in space time that creates a warp tunnel between two points. Hordes of trained
snotlings are forced to run through the tunnel and do all the damage. Their journey through the warp tunnel sends them mad materializing inside their
targets and they have been known to strip Marines of their powered armor and terminators to their death. Even the Big Mek is not safe. Often he can be warped
in front of the target he was shooting at or just get sucked into the warp to dissipate.

Well here are my thoughts on the SAG ... I've used it on occasion ( not for tournaments ) and I have found it well worth its points. I will break down its effectiveness and will play out the scenarios that can occur.

Good at killing infantry of all kinds ,the weapon is still useful despite its randomness, as it gives the orks one of the few pie-plates that they can have access too.

But let us do some math ... The SAG is a troop killer

- at T4 troops it has a 72% chance to wound on a 2+.
- It has an 83% chance to wound on a 3+,
- It has a 91% chance to wound on a 4+.

Strength 8 and greater is not as common, only a 42% chance. Still it is very good at taking out elites, HQs and Dev squads. The odds of generating str8 or greater drop to 42% - which is not bad either. The chance of generating a str 3 or lower is a only 8%. Overall I would call that useful.

You have a 2/3 chance of generating a good result and a 1/4 chance of generating a bad result. For orks I'll take those odds. It's an untargetable
ordnance weapon for a just over 100 pts ( no longer true for 5ed ). It's not
the most reliable gun orks have, but over the course of the game it should get a few shots off, and if a shot destroys an expensive squad, it's all worthwhile. You only need to kill two terminators to earn its points back.

It is a random ordnance, it can easily be blocked from LOS, it cannot move and fire and it takes up an HQ slot. So there are many cons to a SAG. Every ordnance weapon will have to roll to hit and has a chance at missing. The SAG is as
accurate as any other weapon orks have and is similar to every other ordnance weapon in the game. Select your targets well and you can hit the target even if you do deviate. The SAG is no different from a basilisk or a leman russ. Ordanance is just what it is.

It will fail to make its points back in many games.At times they do little, other times they are brilliant. However, even if it never hits a single target because your opponent avoids the fire lines, you've your opponent is making reactive decisions.
In a game of strategy this is very good. If your opponent avoids all the firing lanes then you have just pushed him into specific areas of the battlefield.
This can be an effective tactic if you take advantage of it. So without firing the gun you have created a tactical advantage. Design your list appropriately. Don't block LOS with your trukks and have a force that can quickly move into the area you have forced his troops.


Never point it at vehicles because odds are really against me there but against troops, it can be devastating. Use a list that makes the SAG a worthwhile consideration or leave the SAG in the box. Pick out your targets carefully. He's an HQ. You get to deploy him last and pick your fire lanes.

If you do attach the Big Mek to Lootas, you'd better give him a Bosspole for some
rerolled morale checks. Also, his natural Ld 8 will help keep the Lootas from running. I'd recommend keeping the Lootas + SAG in cover and keep them close enough to the edge to fire out effectively. However, this means that the SAG and Lootas must target the same unit. I would rather keep him near the lootas in the rear, surrounded by a unit of grots arranged like a ring around him. Anyone deepstriking has to deal with all those grots before being able to charge the Mek. IC status should protect him from shooting ( again sadly no longer true in 5ed ). I stand mine at the rear of the lootas with no protection other then his IC status ( see above - should ruse the grot screen now ).

My final assessment is that the SAG can be a very valuable tactical tool in the hands of a wise warboss. But there is a proviso to all of this. It is best used in a speedy list. You see you are giving up a KFF to get a SAG. In a footslogging list I
think the KFF is much more valuable. In a speedy list the fear of the SAG often denies a table quarter and allows your boyz a lot more free reign.

I play games to have fun and really do not care if the SAG does something totally random and weird. It is the single most craziest thing in the WH40K universe by far. You may indeed lose a game because your SAG just destroyed your Nob bikers. Your Big Mek might indeed be flung into a group of harlies and left to assault them on his lonesome but you and your opponent are guaranteed to have laughs along the way. If you don't enjoy your SAG's deviante and random ways better go and play tau or necrons or something. We play Orks here.

*** Just as an additional note - if you decide to take a big mek with a SAG you can also include a spider dread in your troops ( 7 attacks on the charge with 4CCW ). Now ether he will make it into assault is a mute point but even if he just takes the heat off your buggies and trukks and other units, he is worthwhile.

Now here are a few more thoughts from others now that 5ed has changed the rules for ICs ...

From Hyena031

Quote:
SAG took a big hit in 5th simply by the fact that IC can now be targeted. This means that the BigMek needs a dedicated unit that he can attach himself to.
I use one but only in non competitive games since it is unreliable. Unreliable means it can cost you a game which is not on when your in a tournament.
I like to attach mine to a large squad of grots and place them on or near an objective. This gives the BigMek the protection he needs plus he can be used to boost their morale. I would never attach a SAG to a squad of Lootas since the Lootas shooting is way to valuable to have the SAG inflicted unwanted pain.
and again ...

So what if you set your SAG Mek in a DakkaWagon parked at the edge of the map?

Quote:
That would definetly work and I would throw in a squad of grots in the wagon with him. Park the wagon within 6" of an objective and now you are claiming it. For the wagon I recommend giving it 4 bigshootas and one kannon. This will cost you a measly 120pts and it can shoot almost across the board.
I actually plan on using this wagon but I will be placing 15 lootas in it.
Overall my assessment has not changed much however the strategies change with the new rules. What is apparent is that you will be facing Sternguard, Terminators and more with the advent of the new SM codex and the SaG does hurt these units.

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Old 01 Mar 2008, 19:17   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Good tactics. I like to attach the Shokk Attack Gun Mek to Grot Artillery units such as Zzap Guns because I think they tend to shoot simmiler targets. Lootas go for light-armoured troops or light-armoured vehicals, where as Shokk Attack Guns and Zzap Guns tend to shoot at armoured units like Terminators. Thatz my two teef.
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Old 02 Mar 2008, 21:33   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Your SAG is an independent character and cannot be targeted if within 6 inches of a friendly unit and not the closest target. Therefore, you should keep your SAG as far away from everyone else as possible, in the unfortunate scenario that he rolls a double 1. You do not want your entire heavy support to go up in flames with you. That said, his ability to kill stuff dead is there, so long as you don't roll a double, plus he makes for good insurance vs. Terminators or Necrons or other tough opponents.
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Old 02 Mar 2008, 22:01   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Quote:
Your SAG is an independent character and cannot be targeted if within 6 inches of a friendly unit and not the closest target. Therefore, you should keep your SAG as far away from everyone else as possible, in the unfortunate scenario that he rolls a double 1.
Pretty much the way I use him although he will be close to the lootas. Remember too that you can surround your Big Mek with grots. Let them take the brunt of the double 1s. I just recently added them to my list after some advice received here on the forum. I just finished a battle against chaos with my new list. The SAG got a pred. Not bad for its points. I always hope to get a few good rounds of loota shooting before the double roll ( actually I'm yet to get a double 1 ). The odds are pretty good that you will not get a terrible roll but like I said - we'ez orks and random is what we are.
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Old 04 Mar 2008, 13:00   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Since the SAG is an ordnance weapon, do you need LoS, or is it used just as any other ordnance weapon where you don't need LoS but deviate more for it?
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Old 04 Mar 2008, 13:36   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Unfortunately LOS is required but at least he's an IC an untargetable. Come 5e it will create problems when troops are screened as you cannot move and fire the same turn. Note that either mega armour or a SAG replace a weapon so you can't get both on the model. So 'Slow and Purposeful' will not work for you either.
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Old 04 Mar 2008, 13:37   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Ordnance Weapons require LoS unless they are guess-ordnance...since the character is infantry however, you cannot fire it on the move like vehicles can with normal ordnance.
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Old 04 Mar 2008, 13:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: mini tactica - sag

Thanks guys. Never used an ordnance weapon so was never clear on them.
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