Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers
Reply
Old 16 Jan 2008, 02:50   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: tennessee
Posts: 96
Default new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

have any of you had time to play back to back games as speed freaks and then a giant foot slogging horde which one has proven most succeful because i am trying to decide whether or not to get some fantasy orks and convert them to have a massive foot slogging orks or continue with the speed freek army i have. the new lower point cost of boys is great for foot slogging orks but the tempting idea of dropping nearly a half dozen mega armored nobs and a wartrukk is tempting also has anyone had more success with one or the other especially concerning space marines because most of my opponents are either space marine or necron. any army lists 1000 point or 1250 point would be apreciated to support which way or another
-vercingatorix
__________________
Warhammer 40k game record
16 4 2
2k erg test 7:01 145.3 split
6k erg test 18.36 152.8 split
and I am a lightweight
I stroked the boat that won the novice race of Head of the Hooch the 2nd largest regatta in the U.S.A. I can play warhammer because I earned it.
vercingatorix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2008, 17:31   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 599
Send a message via MSN to sneroplex
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

Well, both foostloggers and speed freeks benefit from the cheaper cost of boyz, as your trukk boy units are no longer pushing 180 points. Instead it's closer to 140 now and they're even more powerful than before for several reasons. Under the old waaagh! rules it was tough to get the initiative bonus if you suffered any casualties, but now furious charge simply works whenever you charge. Mob rule makes your leadership equal to the number of orks and starting at 12 boyz you're fearless. Finally the ramshackle rules are awesome and almost give you an advantage when your opponent's shoot your trukks.

As for the rest of the list, there are kult of speed entries scattered throughout. For HQ you got the warbiker boss, elites you got the warbiker nobs. Troops is are the trukk boyz obviously. In fast attack everything has a place, and finally for heavy support your battlewagons and looted wagons let you transport any infantry unit in the codex.
__________________
I shook city walls and towers, wreaking havoc in the streets. Burned palaces of cowardly kings, not a one stood up to me (fools). Bear bloody banners in blazing skies, brandish battle-axe and broadsword! Let drums of glory sound like thunder, hail Barbaric Warlord!
sneroplex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2008, 22:33   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,484
Send a message via AIM to Grandpa Ducky Send a message via Yahoo to Grandpa Ducky
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

Nope, I haven't had the option to switch armies like that. I still don't have quite enough boyz or fast stuff.

As for Necrons:
I've never had a problem with them with the Old Codex, but with the New one, I think they should be even easier. They have a couple of massive disadvantages when put up against the boyz.

1. Cost. Necron Warriors are freakin' expensive. For the cost of three boy, he'll have one Warrior. This translates into a very low model count against an army that can nearly out-swarm 'Nids. Not good for the metal'eadz.

2. Phasing Out. Crump enough of them and they'll run away! To exploit this special rule, I'd concentrate nearly all of my AP3 fire on the mobs of Warriors. Throw a mob of Burna Boyz in a Battlewagon (maybe adding a Deff Rolla for giggles). Let's see them stick those fifteen power weapons in their 'We'll be back' pipe and smoke it. Tankbustas might also help cancel out some saves and to finish it off, drop some Killakannon rounds and Boomgun templates on them and I think you should be a Necron killing machine. Rule of thumb: unless they have a Resurrection Orb Lord standing next to them, Necrons don't get back up after getting hit by AP3 or S8 weapons. We now have so many weapons that fit that profile that it's funny.

Your idea of throwing a ton of Mega Nobz in a Trukk, I think it doesn't sounds like a good idea. Remember that Warriors, for dirt cheap, can arm themselves with power weapons. Scratch that. The Necron player I used to play always claimed the Disruption Fields counted as power weapons in close combat. Shows me for not reading that codex... In that case, A Deffwing style army with supporting Burnaz and ordnance would be a highly entertaining way to fight 'Crons. Biggest downside to that style of play is that you're throwing out one of your biggest advantages: your numbers.

For a horde list, throw down a ton of boyz (I'd prefer Sluggaz, the extra melee attacks outweigh the loss of shooting on the way over, in my opinion), a Looted Wagon or two with ordnance, a small mob of Stormboyz to tie up their warrior right before your mobs hit, and a Battlewagon filled with Burnaz. Either rove forward with your Stormboyz to draw fire away from your more improntant mobs or keep them right behind your boyz and fire up those jump packs at the last possible moment and try and cross the rapid-fire death zone in one bound.

For a Deffwing army, take your two Warbosses, kit them a you like, fill your troops with you two shiny mobs of Meganobz and throw them in Battlewagons. I'd still take some Burnaboyz because they're killing machines. Then maybe a Looted Wagon or two to top off the list with some nice and nasty ordnance.

Quick note:
Be careful of the Gauss Flayer special rules. They can be pretty nasty for vehicles. Make sure you've got those Grot Riggers with you!

I'd probably do the exact same thing as above when tackling Marines. Only thing that might be problematic would be a Land Raider which can be countered either by the Tankbustaz, looted ordnance, Kustom Mega-Blastaz, or the Zapp Gun. Termies might also cause some problems (curse their armour save!) but you could probably either swarm them or simply hit with one of your Klawz.

Best of luck,

-Grandpa Ducky
__________________


Grandpa Ducky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 Jan 2008, 23:44   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 156
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa Ducky
Your idea of throwing a ton of Mega Nobz in a Trukk, I think it doesn't sounds like a good idea. Remember that Warriors, for dirt cheap, can arm themselves with power weapons. Scratch that. The Necron player I used to play always claimed the Disruption Fields counted as power weapons in close combat.
Not so. Disruption Fields are only useful against Vehicles they do NOT count as power weapons in close combat. If that were the case, every Warrior in the land would be fielding them for a mere two points a model.
__________________
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people asking questions.
TheGreatAvatar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Jan 2008, 00:37   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: tennessee
Posts: 96
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

i agree with ducky that the phase out rule is the bane of all necron players, the last time i played a necron player he put in 3 monoliths in a 1450 pt game and i phased him out. the thing that worries me most are as always space marines because the mega armor and all upgrades are the same or more expensive that could kill them and the loss of choppa rule doesnt help not that i'm complaining i prefer the str bonus.
another question to ask is the dust cloud only gives the cover save to the bikers not stuff behind them anymore correct? would a biker mob with wazzdaka and a warboss be the new marine killer option a larger unit of nob bikers with a lot of pks thrown in what would be the optimum size for a squad like this because 10 brings the points to around 1000 and only have 3 bezides the warboss seems like it would killed to fast maybe a squad of 5 with 2 pks and a warboss with pks plus a waagh banner or 2 to make them always hit on 3+ has anyone tried a unit like this in a game or is it too much of a point sinker to be effective. I wouldnt recomend it against imperial or eldar but against dead 'ard armies like space marine and chaos or nid zilla's has this unit worked
sorry for the rambling nature of this post
__________________
Warhammer 40k game record
16 4 2
2k erg test 7:01 145.3 split
6k erg test 18.36 152.8 split
and I am a lightweight
I stroked the boat that won the novice race of Head of the Hooch the 2nd largest regatta in the U.S.A. I can play warhammer because I earned it.
vercingatorix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Jan 2008, 02:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,399
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

well for the Nid zilla armies your best bet are Grots since the herda has a poision wpn.
Hyena031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Jan 2008, 03:42   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

If I was going to take Grotz I'd rather keep the Grabba Stick as PowerKlaws are usefull against any army, Nidzilla included. Mob up the big bugs with Grabba Sticks to keep your casualties to a minimum and move in for the kill with a hidden PK.
Wiegraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Jan 2008, 05:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: England
Posts: 2,484
Send a message via AIM to Grandpa Ducky Send a message via Yahoo to Grandpa Ducky
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

Vercingatorix: Punctuate, man! Punctuate!

A fully tooled out mob of Biker Nobz, a Warboss on a Bike, and Wazdakka (along with the two compulsory troop choices (naturally in Trukkz) would be your 1000 (1009) point list. I'm not too much of a fan in sinking 600 points into one unit, so I'd probably not go this route. I'd probably just spam Marines with a ton of Boyz and a mob of Bunaz, same as Necrons.

My first thought:
As for Nidzilla, I'd take myself a nice and big battery of Zapp Gunz. Intorduce Mr. 400 point 'Nid to my buddy S10 instant death. ;D

After checking their codex:
... ... ... Scratch the previous plan. Did I say Zapp Gunz? I meant... umm... Grot-Prods! That's it! I'd take a ton of Grots to absorb wounds and let those Herdaz poke them big nasty bugs with their little zappy sticks. That's what I'd do.

As for your interpretation of the new Bike rules, I think you are correct. Or at least your interpreting them the same as I am. I'm sure you're shedding a tear, same as me, too.

-Grandpa Ducky
__________________


Grandpa Ducky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Jan 2008, 15:03   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneroplex
Well, both foostloggers and speed freeks benefit from the cheaper cost of boyz, as your trukk boy units are no longer pushing 180 points. Instead it's closer to 140 now and they're even more powerful than before for several reasons. Under the old waaagh! rules it was tough to get the initiative bonus if you suffered any casualties, but now furious charge simply works whenever you charge.
Have you played any games with either?

Running Kult of Speed under the old codex, I very very infrequently failed a waaagh check on my trukk boy squads, so infrequently that I can only remember one or two times, in over two years of competative tournament play where it happened.

Now, we get furious charge. Which means, if we charge marines, they go first. Before, we went simultaneously. Our initiative is awful now, and without armour, it means that, on average, you're losing 3-5 boyz before they get to swing. That means that if you just barely make combat, and only got one model into base-to-base, you can be forced to pull that model, and you get no attacks on the turn you charge.

No, trukk boyz cost less now, and they're worth a lot less. I've played quite a few games with the new codex now, and my trukk boyz have been spectacular failures. I used to be able to put a trukk boy squad up against an assault marine squad and win. Now, I lose so many orks before I get to swing that I'm lucky to tie combat, and trukk mobs don't have the numbers to offset the horrible leadership. I've had trukk boy mobs sweeping-advanced off the table when charging a lone eldar autarch, something that would never have happened under the old codex.

You pretty much have to get two trukk squads into a combined assault, and terrain, and enemy model placement, doesn't make that easy. If you cannot get at least five boyz engaged, you run a very real risk of losing your whole squad to a sweeping advance as well.

Compare that to a footslogger squad. Ok, so if I only get one model into base-to-base with you, you might kill it, and I might lose the combat. But, I'm fearless, and you probably don't outnumber my mob, so I just pile in, and the following round, I get to hit you with 90 attacks.

In my mind, the new codex is pretty much built for footsloggers. You can make a kult-of-speed force, but I think doing so is fighting against the nature of the codex.
redbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 Jan 2008, 18:38   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 599
Send a message via MSN to sneroplex
Default Re: new codex speed freeks vs foot sloggers

I only played one game with the new codex and my trukkers finished off a harlequins units, which would have struck first anyway. The extra strength helped murder them.

That sucks about our regular boyz going last against marines all the time, but there are ways around this such as 'ard boyz to reduce casualties by half or even to just use nobs which are now charging with I4 and S5.
__________________
I shook city walls and towers, wreaking havoc in the streets. Burned palaces of cowardly kings, not a one stood up to me (fools). Bear bloody banners in blazing skies, brandish battle-axe and broadsword! Let drums of glory sound like thunder, hail Barbaric Warlord!
sneroplex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are foot Sloggers worth it. chicop76 Orks 4 23 Sep 2008 13:35
Black Templar 2000pts foot sloggers warriorchris Space Marines Army Lists 8 29 Aug 2008 10:03
Speed Freeks JD3 waargh Showcase 24 06 Aug 2008 14:05
first 500 speed freeks Dartagnan Orks 3 10 Apr 2007 11:44
Speed Freeks... stealth_cat_xv88 Tau 77 17 Mar 2005 04:10