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Useless units
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Old 09 Jan 2008, 18:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Useless units

Is it me, or are Burna Boyz and Flash Gitz absolutely useless in this Codex? The Burna Boyz are expensive, and lack the initiative needed to cut down the Marines they were meant to fight, while the Flash Gitz are too expensive to do anything that a shoota or loota mob can't do. That the Flash Gitz have Nob Statz makes them a unit that cannot decide whether to be a close-combat or ranged unit.

So maybe a few fixes should be in order by the time GW does a FAQ.

-Either lower the cost of burnas to 11-13 points/model, or give them a 4+ save to compensate. As is, their lack of transport options, small size, and MEQ costs make them a very attractive target.
-The Flash Gitz targeters should confer a BS bonus of some sort, either making them BS 3 or 4. They were meant to shoot stuff yet miss too much for their cost, and the D6 AP makes them temperamental at best for Marine-hunting when a Killcannon or Boomgun can do the same thing.
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Old 09 Jan 2008, 22:13   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Useless units

Its you...Lets start with the burna boyz first.** You say the point cost on them are too high but if you look at what other units can purchase a burna and what they go for then burna boyz are down right cheap.** In fact they cost exactly the same as a burna boy in the 3rd edition Codex.** Next you complain that they don't have a transport option but what is stoping you from using a battlewagon or a looted wagon.** 5-15 maybe you missed the 15 cause to me that is an extremely high number of boyz running around with burnaz.** Think about it for a second 15 boyz with burnaz that means 15 templates being slapped down on the table...not much is going to be left but ash when their done. Lastly you say they lack initiative well they have the same initiative as another boy.* ** To me Burna Boyz are a support unit not a CC unit.** Slap them in a Battle wagon or a looted vehicle with a hard case and unload them next to any unit you want to flame template to ashes.
** As for the Flashgits well they are no confused on whether they are a close cbt or ranged orientated unit they are simply a small unit of upper elcholon orks thus the NOB stateine.** Don't view the Nob stat line making the CC but view it as giving them an extra wound.* Combine this with the ability to have FNP, 'eavy armour and you have one hell of a mobile fire-base that can even handle its own in CC if needed to.* As for the gitfinder it is what it is...a means to make sure you can shoot at what you want to shoot at.* A rangefinder in real life doesn't make you a better shot a neither should the gitfinder.* You want BS 3 well look to the Orks little ones for that.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 03:40   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Useless units

I've got nothing to add other then to say Hyena summed up anything I'd have said. Either unit in question is not a unit you'd field every game, but units that do have their role.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 17:03   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Useless units

Burnas cost exactly the same as a 3rd ed Ork w/ Burna, but the rules have changed since then and since the Waaagh rules work differently, one cannot use them as the can openers they were originally intended to be; the I4 charge that gave them a chance against Marines is gone and they can bonk you first now and without any non-burnas in the unit to soak up wound the Burna Boyz are gonna bleed off points and FAST. Combined with the 4th ed LOS rules and unless one specifically took the time to go out of the way to provide cover for the Burnaz, and they'd be gunned down all too quickly. The idea of using them for a Fish of Fury equivalent move sounds somewhat nice except should you deploy them in a manner they don't manage to hit your entire opponent's squad; Ork vehicles are too slow and unwieldly and lack the Skimmer option that makes the FoF work.

I disagree on the Flash Gitz. For the cost spent on buying a single More Dakka Flash Git, you could get 5 Shoota Boyz. From a raw numerical perspective, I know which one I would prefer (10 shots beats 2 any day, especially given the Ork's Cruddy BS). When fighting Guard/Tau/Nids/Eldar/anyone else with pie plates of death, you're simply giving a really large VP magnet/pointsink that chances are could easily be ignored most the game anyway as Range 24 is not that great. Given a choice between Flash Gitz and Warbikes (both have the same point cost), my money generally is on the Warbikes if only because the Warbikes have better speed, firepower (TL Dakkaguns are more reliable than Snazzguns by a long shot), and proper durability without needing to sink into buying a Painboss. Flash Gitz just don't have the firepower needed to make their own points back. As for the BS3, seriously one can be more creative than that. Gitfinder could for all purposes also function like a Targeter (+1 BS) plus it would make for a funny conversion, some Gitz wearing Tau Targeters like monocoles (especially if they had top hats to go with them). ;D
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 19:16   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Useless units

I dont know about the flash gitz, but I would assume the burna boys would be rather effective in bunker assault. One flamer autohits everything in a bunker. 5 guys, hits all units 5 times. Say, just 5 of them attack a bunker, with 10 marines in it, it will leave you with 50 hits on the poor toasty marines. Thats 25 wounds. Thats about 8-9 dead.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 19:35   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Useless units

The thing is it's such a specialized scenario though and that Lootas are just so awesome in contrast...meh.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 19:45   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Useless units

Flash Gitz are a heavy choice, Lootas are Elite, so preference on which to take could really just come down to where you have a slot open.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 20:25   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Useless units

I do see one scenario where Burnas can make a fun, if expensive unit. Place Grotsnik in their midst, and give em Cybork bodies. Suddenly they're a bit more resilient than normal with feel no pain and 5++ saves and can be more effectively used for Terminator-hunting or whatnots.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 20:31   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Useless units

Of course the downside is Grotsnik's 'One Scalpel Short' rule is going to make it harder to hit the unit you want to.
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Old 10 Jan 2008, 22:25   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Useless units

Thats right the rules have changed and now the Waaaggh lets your boyz get to where they are going a little bit faster. Your only looking at using burnas in CC as power wpns but not use them as a flamer. Anymore than 4 flamers hitting one squad is going to turn any squad in ashes. If this is the case then use the Waagghh! to your advantage and sneak in those burnaz a turn earlier to light up that juicy marshmellow squad...mmmm marshmellows. With open top vehicles there shouldn't be a problem covering the entire mob and ork vehicles are not slow and unwieldly. Burnaz fill the roll of support and do quite nicely especially to squads in bunkers or in forest. Think outside the box and you will quickly see that burnaz are one hell of a unit.

I still stand firmly agaist you on the point of Flashgitz having BS3. An ork is an ork no if ands or buts so why should they be any different. A 2 wounds, a 'Eavy Armour Save and FNP is nothing to just fluff off. These boyz can take a pounding and that is why they are rightfully kept to 5-10 in mob size. Not all games use VP, and "pie plates of death" can easly scatter. If both you and your opponent deploy unit 6" from each others table edge that leave only 36" between the two of you. Through the use of terrian and other units moving up into your opponents face these boyz can easily move in to their range. Also who said that these boyz had to be advancing...why not defending an objective or holding a quater. These boyz well excell at both of these especially if they are in some sort of cover. As for your comparision to Bikers well I can use the exact same statement you made agaist them "When fighting Guard/Tau/Nids/Eldar/anyone else with pie plates of death, you're simply giving a really large VP magnet/pointsink..." or any other ork unit in fact. The biggest problem that Flashgits face is that they are a Heavy Support Choice and when you look at the other Heavies you quickly realize that the Flashgits are probably not going to make the list cause of that not cause of their point cost.
Lastly I would like to point out that ork vehicles are not slow one little bit and have the great advantage of allowing your boyz the ability to assualt out them. THrought the use of terrian and other vehicle you can easily put your vehicle into hull down positions.

Essential you want to have your GROT and eat him too.
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