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The new Flash Gitz
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 21:45   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default The new Flash Gitz

One of the units of the new Dex which received a lot of flak from the beginning were the new Flash Gitz.

Too expensive and better off taking Boyz with Shootaz are two of the most commonly heard arguments.

Well, I took a closer look at them (especially since I plan to field them for my Bad Moon army), and I think I can safely say they are one of the better units in the new Ork Codex.

What do we get?

Sure, at first glance, their high points cost can put you off, but if we look closer, we see that we get a LOT for the points we invest:

-Da Gits: The new Flash Gitz are no whimpy Ork Boyz with upgraded shootaz anymore! No, they`re full-blown Nobs, with better armour to boot! Especially the better armour, combined with the additional wound, makes them very tough. Assign a Dok, and they are nigh impossible to kill with small arms fire (but more on that later). Of course, being Orks, they can be devastating in CC, as well, each with 4 attacks strength 5 on the charge!

-Da Gun: The new Snazzgun is not just a Bolter with upgrade possibilities. It has a longer range than a Shoota, higher strength, and in 5/6 cases a better AP than the basic gun of the Orks - and in 3/6 cases (50%!) it punches with ease through Power Armour! Marines, beware! Add in the possible upgrades, and the trusty Snazzgun will soon rake in loads of kills.

-Da Options: At first glance, not much in the way of options. No transports, which hurts. No further equipment, and the only real options are weapon upgrades (more later), Ammo runts and a Painboy.

Let`s start with the Painboy. When I first looked at the price tag, my I raised my left eyebrow sceptically. Who would pay THIS price for a nearly unarmed (well, for ranged combat, at least), unarmoured Ork? Then I looked at the "dok`s tools" entry - and asked myself: "the WHOLE unit?" Then my jaw dropped.
Yes, it IS possible to get a ten strong Flash Git mob, with 20 wounds between them, a 4+ save AND FNP.
This means that your unit can take 24 Bolter shots before you have to remove a single Ork. In CC, this skyrockets to 32 attacks from vanilla Marines. Yes, 32. Do the maths.
Keep them in cover, and even Heavy Bolters won`t really dent them.

Now, the Snazzgun upgrades.
-More Dakka: Should be more or less mandatory - double your shots for a minimal increase in points? Yes, please!
-Shootier: I have mixed feelings when it comes to this upgrade, but on the whole, I feel that it COULD be worth it, if you fight Nidzilla on a regular basis - armour penetrating high-strength rounds should stop most monstrous creatures dead in their tracks. Furthermore, Marines are wounded on 2+ instead of 3+, which can make quite a difference.
-Blastas: Oh my, the goodness! A typical Ork upgrade: 100% deadly, the question is: For whom? I`d only take it if I`d knew for sure I`d face Deathwing. Especially combined with More Dakka, this could easily lead to the strange situation that you have more dead Gitz than enemies! Handle with care! Ammo Runts and a Dok are advised (since the one-time re-roll of the Runts won`t do much good normally, but here, it could save lives; furthermore, AFAIK, FNP should work for "gets hot" weapons as well).

Now, one last point here: Their FoC placement. A lot of people complained that they are Heavy Support. I did so, too - until I realised that Tankbustaz are Elite. So, basically, the two units swapped their places, and I have no problems with this. The Elite Tankbustaz bust tanks, and the Heavy Support Flash Gitz kill heavy infantry. Sounds like a good deal to me; besides, if they would be Elite, they woul be in direct competition with Tankbustaz and other Nob mobs, which wouldn`t do them any good.

Battlefield Application

Now, the difficult part: Ho do we use this - potentially lethal - unit on the tabletop?

Sure, they can take a lot of punishment from small arms, but they wither under heavier fire - yes, this will take some pressure from our Deffdreads, Trukks and Battlewagons, but a 300+ points unit doesn`t sound like a meat shield to me.
The Gitz need to be A kept alive and B need to be brought close to the enemy to work their magic.

My first reaction was: put them into a Battlewagon - if possible with Killkannon - drive forward, shoot - and when close enough, shoot AND assault! Sounds like my kind of fun, but it is not without dangers. The whole unit has a big bulls eye painted on it, and you can be sure that it`ll receive a lot of unwanted attention.

So I guess the footslogger-approach would be best - behind shielding units such as Kans and Trukks, or behind cover, until they can use their weapons with a maximum of effectivity.

Last advice?

Never underestimate "da Gitz"!

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 22:14   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

Thought I'd point out that the original Tankbusta's were Troops, not Elites.

Regardless, excellent post. You've done a good job of laying out the positives of Flash Gits while also noting their biggest con (the point cost).

I am more confident about fielding them now that I've got more opinions on them. I too play a Bad Moon army list, but I've been on the fence for awhile about the new Gits. I can honestly say that now I am sure my opponents will be rightly terrified at how damn snazzy my guns are.
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 22:34   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

One thing i didn't read mentioned was the war gear of da flash gits. The eye patch thing(cant remember its name), where it allows you to measure distance between targets before anouncing who you shoot. Now I am not saying you should take an expencive unit like da gits just for this wargear item, however when you use them combined with a unit that will take some prior planing eg tank busters. Unfortunatly I am at work at the moment so I don't have the PDF on me. If anything I have entered is incorrect please advise.

Also when i get home I will get to typing up a tactica on the useage on these bad boyz.

Shiki~
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 22:48   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiki
One thing i didn't read mentioned was the war gear of da flash gits. The eye patch thing(cant remember its name), where it allows you to measure distance between targets before anouncing who you shoot. Now I am not saying you should take an expencive unit like da gits just for this wargear item, however when you use them combined with a unit that will take some prior planing eg tank busters. Unfortunatly I am at work at the moment so I don't have the PDF on me. If anything I have entered is incorrect please advise.

Also when i get home I will get to typing up a tactica on the useage on these bad boyz.

Shiki~
Dang, I KNEW I missed something! Of course, you`re talking about the Gitfinda. A great thing, that`s for sure - especially useful to find out whether a charge is possible or not...
I`m not sure if the wording "they may measure to see if they are in range before declaring their target" means that you can measure, declare a Waaagh (since you can declare it "during the shooting phase"), then fleet towards the enemy without shooting anything...

If this would be possible, it would make them even more deadly and useful!

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 23:15   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

I took that to mean you can measure any of the enemies units before declaring your attack. This is a cheap(posibly cheesy) way to determin if your other units are in charging range. also, Can be used as a advance range check with tankbusters to make sure you can get them in range of the target you want to attack.(probly wont work but if you are good with setting plans several turns in advance then might be a nice addition)
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 23:20   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

Yes, cheesy, that`s for sure. I won`t be using this unless Im playing an annoying powergamer who I just HAVE to beat ;D

But, on the other hand - just using it to check if an enemy unit is within 24" sounds kinda unnecessary to me.
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Old 04 Dec 2007, 23:33   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

bonesaw- I could not agre more with what you said (on everything, and good report by the way)

I agree on the cheese slice there, but if you got guys who build there armies starting with 3 writhlords (aka anything super cheese) and completly take the imagination out of the list.... then yes, play flash gitz, it might actually make the game fun!

I think the best thing im taking down here, is that the tank bustas are elites, which makes fielding gitz a bit les risky on the choices restrictions.
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 12:32   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

Good points Bonesaw and I've agreed with this assessment since I saw the new Gitz. They aren't a unit you'll field every game most likely, but they are a unit that will certainly have its uses.
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 15:14   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

I disagree. If anything, I think the best use for flash gitz is to get more assault-oriented nobs into the game by using the heavy support slot... and that's about as counter-intuitive as you can get.

Look at their statline, compared to a normal boyz:
+1S, +1I : Close-combat upgraded stats
+1W, 4+ armour: resilience - ok, that's good for shooters.

So, part of that high-cost is devoted to stats that you're not going to get to use. Well, ok, maybe that's just a tradeoff.

But, consider their usefulness against, as suggested, heavy infantry (We'll look at T4 and T5, 2+ and 3+ saves). And, I'll figure it with all the flash gitz possibilities too, just to see how it works out.

I'll be looking into kills-per-point, which means taking the expected number of kills from one shooter, and dividing by the cost of that shooter, to normalize things.

First, our baseline: The shoota boy.

Although they're not all that efficient on their own, their cheap cost makes them a surprisingly good shooty unit.

Vs:
T4, 3+: .018 KPP
T5, 3+: .012 KPP
T4, 2+: .009 KPP
T5, 2+: .006 KPP

These numbers are pretty small, but they're per point. Taken another way, you can use the inverse of the above numbers (1/x) to find out how many points you would have to spend to get one expected kill. So, for shoota boyz to 'expect' to kill one T5, 2+ save model in a round of shooting, you would have had to spend 162 points on the unit.


Ok, Flash Gitz:

Flash gitz throw another variable into the math, that being the odds that they get the required AP roll to ignore the armour.

So, our equation looks like:

#shots * chance-to-hit * chance-to-wound * (chance to ignore armour + chance that armour fails * (1 - chance-to-ignore-armour)) (PPS - you can do this all in an excel spreadsheet really easily)


Basic Flash Gitz:
T4, 3+: .005
T5, 3+: .004
T4, 2+: .002
T5, 2+: .003

So, as you can see, in terms of shooting effectiveness, per point, flash gitz are, at best (Vs T5, 2+), half-as-effective as shoota boyz, and at worst (Vs T4, 3+) less-than-a-third-as-effective.

Ok, so what about the upgrades?

More Dakka:
T4, 3+: .010
T5, 3+: .007
T4, 2+: .007
T5, 2+: .005

Slightly better, but still worse than shoota boyz on all accounts.

Shootier:
T4, 3+: .006
T5, 3+: .005
T4, 2+: .004
T5, 2+: .003

Lost ground compared to More Dakka, Still worse than shoota boyz.

What about Blastas?
T4, 3+: .006
T5, 3+: .004
T4, 2+: .004
T5, 2+: .003

Still worse than shoota boyz, and now with the added effect of Gets Hot.

Perhaps combining upgrades works:

Shootier + More Dakka:
T4, 3+: .011
T5, 3+: .008
T4, 2+: .007
T5, 2+: .006


Much more effective, per-point. And, look, we actually matched the effectiveness of shoota boyz against T5, 2+ Save models.

Shootier + Blastas:
T4, 3+: .016
T5, 3+: .005
T4, 2+: .005
T5, 2+: .004

Not so good...

More Dakka Blastas:
T4, 3+: .010
T5, 3+: .007
T4, 2+: .007
T5, 2+: .006

And, finally, what if we pile them all on!
T4, 3+: .011
T5, 3+: .009
T4, 2+: .008
T5, 2+: .006


What have we learned here?

First: In terms of Raw Shooting potential, even against heavy infantry, Flash Gitz aren't as good as shoota boyz.

Second: If you're going to invest in any of the upgrades, More Dakka seems to have the best return on investment. This is true both alone and in combinations. Blastas and Shootier are both about equal in terms of value, but neither is as good as More Dakka.

Third: Your return on upgrades multiplies as you add more. You get more kills-per-point when you're fully decked out than when you're going cheap. (Although, this makes the unit riskier, as buying gun upgrades doesn't make them any more survivable)


But - and I'll say this first, so that no one else feels the need to - Mathhammer isn't everything.

Shoota-boyz are better in assault. Even though Flash Gitz are essentially Nobz, they cannot get a powerklaw in the squad. And, at their price, you're getting 4 boyz wounds for each two Gitz wounds, which accounts for both the wounds and save. You're getting eight S3 attacks for each 3 S4 attacks that the Gitz offer.

Shoota-boyz are more flexible. With the ability to take up to three rokkits in a squad and still be cheaper than the gitz, the boyz have the potential to drop any vehicle, whereas even Shootier gitz will struggle with AV12 and be unable to affect anything bigger.

Shoota boyz -might- be able to take a nob with a powerklaw too. This is debatable. It's really icing on the cake, as the boyz are more survivable, better at shooting, more flexible in use, and better at assault, but heck, if the nob can powerklaw up, why not?

In short, all the reasons to take Flash Gitz are 'fluffy'. Maybe they'll make sweet new models for them (and that's great). Maybe you've already got nice conversions. Maybe you don't want to spend the cash for 30 shoota boyz. There are reasons to take Flash Gitz. None of those reasons, however, are that they're effective. They're not. They don't do anything as well as shoota boyz.
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Old 05 Dec 2007, 16:00   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: The new Flash Gitz

Nice analysis. You DID forget to mention, though, that Flash Gitz have a longer range, and a far greater toughness than the average Shoota Boy.

With a Doc, it takes 24 Bolter shots to down a single nob.

On the other hand, 24 Boltershots kill 8 Shootas.

Add in the fact that the Shoota Boys are in Rapid-Fire range after letting their shooting, and the Nobs aren`t, you have one area where the Gitz clearly excel.
Even if you add Heavy Bolters to the equation - the Nobs still retain their FNP.

Same is true for CC. Besides, I still remember your initial thread, where you cursed that Orks go last in CC against Marines, and that only a few Orks can strike back. Well, with Gitz on the charge, you`ll strike at the same time as the Marines - and you`ll have enough of da ladz left for NEXT CC phase, as well, thanks to the 32 attacks the Marine squad needs to down a single Ork.

Quote:
But - and I'll say this first, so that no one else feels the need to - Mathhammer isn't everything.
<sacasm on>I just find it hilarious that you continue to use Mathhammer arguments (number of attacks, etc) after this statement, but, hey, nobody`s perfect.

But of course, you`re right. Mathhammer makes clear that Shootas are better, so Shootas ARE better. Even if you forgot to mention a couple of things (like their higher I, their higher toughness, etc) in your analysis. :
<sarcasm off>

When I`m building an army, I want to have fun. Flash Gitz are about as Orky (or, Bad Moony...) as you can get. AND they`re not completely useless. Therefore, I will field them, no matter the number after the zeros...

Cheers,
-Bone
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