[Nightmare]

Okay, we've all seen the rumours, and a few lucky people have seen some leaked PDF's.

And the question I propose to you guys is this: Which unit will be worth more in the coming codex, slugga boyz or shoota boyz?

In the old rules it was a no brainer for me: slugga boyz as their choppas made mince meat out of anything.

However, GW thought to make that game that bit more harder for us greenskins and get rid of our favourite toy. And in doing so the only difference between the two that I know of is the extra attack.

Wouldn't it be better to have some 40 shots from shootas before the mob charges in? Or is that extra attack vital?

Or is there something else entirely? I know there is no armoury, and that could mean no klaw and weaker assault for the shootas?

Lets keep it consturctive, and leave the complaining for the other thread!

[maniacs1]

I've got alot of sluggas but I will defo be taking shoota boyz now with large BAYONETS!!!

It makes sense to me with Orcs to shoot double shots before charging in. Better than firing once and charging in. In both cases your getting 4 attacks but with shoota boyz two of them are before you get hit in order of ini.

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

As they said in a old WD article, when shooting your shoota's before charging, it is essentially 2 attacks that the enemy can't fight back against. Being assault as well, it sounds a lot better to me to use shoota's - without choppa's any more, they enemy will be saving as normal, so you want weight of hits to try and drop them.

Assuming 4 attacks on the charge for sluggas, and 2 for shoota's +2 for shooting, mathhammer gives us:

Slugga's:

Assuming MEQ - 3/6 x 3/6 x 4/6 x4(attacks) x20(Boyz) kills 13 marines, but striking last.

Shoota's:

Assuming MEQ - 2/6 x 3/6 x 4/6 x2(shots) x20(boyz) kills 4.44 +
attacks: 6.66 MEQ, total of 11.1

So, assuming my maths is right, and its been far too long since I used math like this, while slugga boyz gain 2 kills over the shoota boyz, neither unit will strike before marines, and likely take casualties, meaning less return combat attacks, but you are nearly guaranteed the kills from the shooting making it, IMO, better to go for shoota boyz.

Of course, there's a chance my maths is total rubbish, and I know nothing, so if anyone can verify, go ahead.

[maniacs1]

Originally Posted by Rafe

As they said in a old WD article, when shooting your shoota's before charging, it is essentially 2 attacks that the enemy can't fight back against. Being assault as well, it sounds a lot better to me to use shoota's - without choppa's any more, they enemy will be saving as normal, so you want weight of hits to try and drop them.

Assuming 4 attacks on the charge for sluggas, and 2 for shoota's +2 for shooting, mathhammer gives us:

Slugga's:

Assuming MEQ - 3/6 x 3/6 x 4/6 x4(attacks) x20(Boyz) kills 13 marines, but striking last.

Shoota's:

Assuming MEQ - 2/6 x 3/6 x 4/6 x2(shots) x20(boyz) kills 4.44 +
attacks: 6.66 MEQ, total of 11.1

So, assuming my maths is right, and its been far too long since I used math like this, while slugga boyz gain 2 kills over the shoota boyz, neither unit will strike before marines, and likely take casualties, meaning less return combat attacks, but you are nearly guaranteed the kills from the shooting making it, IMO, better to go for shoota boyz.

Of course, there's a chance my maths is total rubbish, and I know nothing, so if anyone can verify, go ahead.

Are you an Orc player? Sounds like a thinkink pansy to me!!!!

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

No... I actually play Tau and Eldar, and have always had an affinity with the pansier races.

[Thor{DoH}]

I'll give a go at the math. We'll ignore the 18" range of the shoota and the extra shots you're getting in EVEN before you get into assault range, but it's something to keep in mind. Math is based on straight up 10 Vanilla Marines, Orks with no Nob, and everyone is swinging.

30 Slugga Boyz
You're going to get your slugga shot on the way in, seemed you forgot that Rafe. So:
Orks Shooting on the charge: 30 shots / 10 hit / 5 wound / 2 dead

We won't be swinging first, and Marines lost 2 from shooting, so:
Marine Assault: 8 attacks / 4 hit / 2 wound / 2 dead

Ork Assault: 112 attacks / 56 hit / 28 wound / 9 dead
Ork Total Kills: 11

30 Shoota Boyz
Shooting on the charge: 60 shots / 20 hit / 10 wound / 3 dead

We won't be swinging first, and Marines lost 3 from shooting, so:
Marine Assault: 7 attacks / 4 hit / 2 wound / 2 dead

Assaulting: 84 attacks / 42 hit / 21 wound / 7 dead
Ork Total Kills: 10

So based purely on charging, remember furious charge, and the shots we take going in, Slugga Boyz barely take the cake. However, when you factor in that Shoota Boyz have an extra round of shooting over Sluggas, then things go more favorably to the Shoota Boyz.

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

Thanks

You're right, I forgot to include about shoota's getting the extra shooting above and beyond slugga range, but with that included, the math does indicate that shoota's are now the better choice.

I believe had they kept the choppa rule, slugga boyz would have stayed on top, but by axing it, it makes shoota's not only a very viable choice, but effective as well.

Not to mention those rare times when you don't face MEQ, the shoota's extra shots will come in very useful.

[Thor{DoH}]

I completely agree.

Slugga Boyz will have their place also, they just won't always be the unit I stack up against everyone. Just as Shootas will tear more up against non-MEQs in shooting, the Sluggas will do the same in assault and pull away from Shootas in that regard. Those extra attacks in assault will come in handy against weaker armor.

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

True - those slugga boyz can now hit nearly as much, if not as fast as Hormagaunts! They are going to be very useful against guard-like armies, I shudder to think if the get in combat with my Tau.

[Nightmare]

Can I ask why you guys are giving the shoota boyz only 4 attacks with the shoota shots included? Techinically they have 5 - 2 basic, 2 shots, and the charge bonus.