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WBB options/oddities
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Old 02 Aug 2005, 00:40   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default WBB options/oddities

This is directly quoted from a member of another forum (Lord Abyss) so everything is not from me. I posted here becuase i wanted to see what you guys have answers for it.

Welcome fellow Necron players. Just started necrons and have been playing 40k since 4th ed came out (fantasy 5 years). I have been exploring the rules on necrons and some of the things I have read in the book/faq/errata contradict what many players think and what strategies exist in countering necrons. So I want to know what you guys think.

1. One option that has come about is the sentence under WbB "At the start of the every Necron turn, damaged Necrons may self-repair." What I gather from this is that we have the option to not self repair when we can, but delay the roll. No where have I read that this is not possible. Why would we do this? Well, maybe we are waiting for a monolith to be deep striking to get that extra WbB roll...

Another way I have seen Necrons played is that when it comes time to do WbB, any models not with in the 6" for the roll are removed. From what I understand this is wrong since only on a failed WbB or power weaponed/instant kill are damaged Necrons removed.

2. One tactic I seen listed to counter us is to wipe out one squad at a time to prevent WbB. However I have not read anywhere that if a squad is wiped out that the Necrons are removed. This goes to the above. If this is a valid tactic, someone please tell me the source, page, paragraph. Otherwise I foresee one squad being damaged on a flank and having the like models shift over for the next turn for WbB or a tomb spider swooping in to accomplish the same thing.

Whatcha guys think?
from http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ad.php?t=43085

He brings up really vald options in my point of view, but maybe there is something I am missing.

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Old 02 Aug 2005, 14:27   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

That was a very interesting article, but I think the responses to that thread were pretty much right on.

While the ability to self repair is an option that *can* be taken, however the refusal to make that roll in the next necron turn simply means that model phases out.* Remember you don't have to make armor saves in 40k if you don't want to, but that means the model automatically takes a wound.* While it doesn't specify that the WBB must be made in the next immediate turn, it's intended to be.* There have been several instances where the game developers freely admit that their rules aren't perfect (what you say?!) and when it comes to interpretting rules, the interpretation that makes the most sense is the best one.

Think about it, if a necron player just incurred casualties but sat on subsequent turns to perform WBB saves... it'd be a housekeeping nightmare trying to keep track of models that still qualify for WBB, checking ranges left and right for several units needing to be rolled for.* It'd simply be more a hassle to do so than simply roll for them at the start of the next necron turn.

Plus I see the necron's ability to self repair as a time critical issue.* Once a necron model falls, it's "keep alive" signal ceases to transmit back to the Necron Lord/Tomb Ship/Monolith/Statis Chamber, etc...* This invokes the necron's automatic internal repair system, rerouting power from secondary systems to attempt to re-establish contact. If the necron is able to repair and reconnect, the Necron Lord/Tomb Ship/Monolith/Statis Chamber retransmits that signal back to the necron and finishes the recovery process (kinda like "remoting in" to a PC to fix a problem).* However since time on a battlefield is a factor and the process of recovery is more than likely an instantaneous one, there's no in-game waiting for a necron to have his number called.

While it would be slick for a necron unit to 'wait it out' till circumstances are right for self repair, that's not how a machine would operate.

A machine's logic would operate as such:

NECRON SYSTEM #00.11.001 OFFLINE
SENDING RE-INIT REPAIR SIGNAL
WAITING...
WAITING...
CONNECTION ESTABLISHED
PROCESSING SYSTEM REPAIR
PROCESSING...
PROCESSING...
NECRON SYSTEM #00.11.001 ONLINE

Of course if a repair signal wasn't transmitted after a certain amount of time, either the necron itself would invoke it's teleporter unit and phase out whatever debris was left, or the Necron Lord/Tomb Ship/Monolith/Statis Chamber would target it's last location and recover the remaining necron parts.

Heck, one could argue that if there was a game with more than one necron army on the field, but players could perform WBB rolls in BOTH necron turns! It does state: "At the start of the every Necron turn..." So, yes... lots of wording loopholes... but we all know how it should really be played.

That's just my take on the whole issue, anyway.

-SaturN

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Old 02 Aug 2005, 16:26   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

I agree that how you should play, but what if someone argues that? What could you do? Especially what you said and the two necron players thing how could you defend yourself? I mean yes you could walk away but like at a tournament there would be a huge argument, that would be fun to watch as the people try to say the necron players take on the codex is wrong. Oh well just something i thought would make you guys think. 8)
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Old 02 Aug 2005, 17:06   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieKiller
1. One option that has come about is the sentence under WbB "At the start of the every Necron turn, damaged Necrons may self-repair." What I gather from this is that we have the option to not self repair when we can, but delay the roll. No where have I read that this is not possible. Why would we do this? Well, maybe we are waiting for a monolith to be deep striking to get that extra WbB roll...
If you do not take the test at the start of the turn, the model is lost.

Quote:
Another way I have seen Necrons played is that when it comes time to do WbB, any models not with in the 6" for the roll are removed. From what I understand this is wrong since only on a failed WbB or power weaponed/instant kill are damaged Necrons removed.
Read the beam back rules: They need to be within 6" of a like Necron (eg: warriors within 6" of warriors) or 12" of a Tomb Spyder. Technically, this means a Lord is never entitled to a Beam Back roll, unless a Tomb Spyder is present in the list...

Quote:
2. One tactic I seen listed to counter us is to wipe out one squad at a time to prevent WbB. However I have not read anywhere that if a squad is wiped out that the Necrons are removed. This goes to the above. If this is a valid tactic, someone please tell me the source, page, paragraph. Otherwise I foresee one squad being damaged on a flank and having the like models shift over for the next turn for WbB or a tomb spider swooping in to accomplish the same thing.
As stated, models that are not within 6" of a like model, or 12" of a Tomb Spyder, are not entitled to a Beam Back roll. As "downed" Necrons do not count, a squad that is wiped out, and with no models within 6" of a like model, is completely wiped out.
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Old 02 Aug 2005, 19:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

Hey Wargamer,

I think Zombiekiller knows how the WBB rolls work, he's trying to analyze the 'what ifs' that the poorly written codex do not cover against.

But, I just checked the 4.01 FAQ and I think alot of the hypotheticals can be laid to rest if the same people who read too much into the Codex can read that much from the FAQ.

From the Necron 4.01 FAQ under the clarification of the WBB rule:

"To keep things simple, when the casualties are suffered assess whether they are in range of the Resurrection Orb.* If they are, lay them down and move them with the unit.* If they are not in range of the Orb, remove them entirely.* You will then know how many WBB rolls to make at the start of your next turn.* The same logic applies if the Necrons fall back after taking shooting casualties."

So it specifies in that one little sentence:

a.) when WBB rolls are made
b.) whose WBB rolls are made

BTW, in the FAQ it also specifies how Reserves work for multiple necron units and the Monolith.* It looks like if you have to bring out more than one unit of Necrons out in a turn from Reserves and the Monolith is available, one unit MUST use the Monolith, and the rest can walk on from the table edge.* They didn't specify if multiple units could emerge from it in one turn, but the Monolith Portal rules in the Codex already states only one unit can emerge per turn.* So the answer to whether or not we can have a Necron Party at the Portal Gate is: No.*

...or at least, not till we clean our room and take out the trash.

END OF LINE

-SaturN
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Old 06 Aug 2005, 16:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
Read the beam back rules: They need to be within 6" of a like Necron (eg: warriors within 6" of warriors) or 12" of a Tomb Spyder. Technically, this means a Lord is never entitled to a Beam Back roll, unless a Tomb Spyder is present in the list...
Actually Wargamer it says in the codex immediately after the WBB rule that the Lord can stand back up even if it is the only Lord on the table.
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Old 06 Aug 2005, 18:46   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

Oh good. I haven't had the chance to read the Necron Codex in a while, but I did assume that was the case.
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Old 09 Aug 2005, 07:27   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

Ha, doesn't forget the text for te tomb spyder, it never said that you have to put the units that it help WBB to the nearest, it just say, uh, 1 moment, well, it just never says closest, so you can put them in any unit that has the same name (yay).

And, double Ha, you forgot (or didn't notice, I had to be told myself, as I never use it) that the resurrection orb actually effects all units that are withing 6" or it.

The Necron Lord is able to augment the self-repair systems of Necrons withing 6" of him. (hear is the important part) All necron units with a model within 6" bla bla bla, you know the rest.

I personally think that was just a mistake, but some people take advantage of it. Even after I read that I still think the orb is a wast of points, just not as many.

I personally think the "waiting to bring my dead to life" is more fun. If I mess up, then I phase out, If I succeed then I make my squads big again, help them come back from running to the long drop to the floor, or just making a ultra big unit to brace for the inevitable hit of a swarming front. (which seems to be nearly the only way to kill those death company loonies without resorting to drooping a monolith on them, or using a c'tan, as even those don't work.) The fact that you can choose when to apply that wbb roll is a tactic of its own, and is best used in conjunction of tomb spyders.

I wonder if I can give dead units that make their wbb to augment units in cc? hmm, that requires some research and development. (he he, an ork mob that is plowing through units to have a necron mob rise up to meet them. That would be a sight to see) this scenario has a lot of warriors, I would never play with that many, but flayed ones just don't have the numbers that the ork hoard would have

"Ha, I nearly have you at phase out bob. I just need to kill that group of 20 warriors. It's your turn bob, make your wbb so I can crush you"

"Well thanks Henry, I think I'll just roll for my 40 other deceased warriors (one squad got sweeped after a turn of combat) that happen to be within 12" of those tomb spyders that you tactfully ignored and I get 25 (he got lucky) warriors added to my group of 20, so now I have 45 warriors, lets dual Henry!"

now if it were flayed ones he would have 25 flayed ones (=50 warriors in cc) so maybe they would be better, I just decided to go for to impact of 2 hoards trying to kill each other. That would just awesome, and the dice rolls would probably crack concrete.
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Old 09 Aug 2005, 10:20   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

Let's look at this from another perspective:

Okay, I just failed three Death Company armour saves... but I won't roll to see if they ignore the wounds yet, I'll just count them as dead so you can't attack them, then roll when you're within charge range.

It doesn't work like that. WBB is just a variation of "Feel No Pain". It has to be done immediately, not when you feel like it. If you don't roll at the first oppertunity, you fail and lose the model.
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Old 09 Aug 2005, 17:27   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: WBB options/oddities

also if you get caught in crossfire (someone sweeping advances through your fallback) all the models in the squad are removed. And the same applies when you deep strike into diffecult/impasible terrain. FYI, no WBB saves, just alot of victory points for your enemies.
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