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Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex
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Old 02 May 2010, 23:52   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

Okay, So the guys and myself at our local GW store got to talking and we think that a nice way to do Pariahs in the next codex is to drop them completely as a elite choice. Then make them a upgrade for a warrior squad, because quite frankly where ever you want a Pariah, you really only ever need 1. The only question is how much would you charge for the upgrade? I was thinking make it a 40 point upgrade and give the Pariah 2 attacks in close combat and make it Necron. (I'd also kind of like to see Warriors given assault 2 12" weapons and have WBB taken as you take a wound, but thats just me)
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Old 03 May 2010, 00:36   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

I may be am completely biased, but I an strongly opposed to that idea. For two reasons which I will mention know.

1.

Necrons should not have unit champions. I really don't think that Necrons should have squad upgraded champions anymore then Tyranids should. They are solid units of a single type that each have their own specified niche that work well with other units. I really don't think that Pariahs, or anything at all, should be a unit upgrade for warriors.

2.

Pariahs are a fantastic unit on their own. They are very strong, tough, and are able to dish out a lot of hurt. Even without We'll be back, they are fantastically tough. The main thing about necrons is that they cannot have any unit working solo, which I think is the main problem with how people view units like Pariahs. You cannot send any necron unit around unsupported, and you cannot rely on any necron unit for victory. We have no 'deathstar' units, and that is fine. The army works by mutual supporting it's self. There are tons of rules in the book that work well with rules other units produce, and different units capabilities work well affecting other units capabilities.

This also touches back with reason #1. Necrons should not really have any variation in their units. Each unit is chosen due to what it can do. There should not be anyhting that makes a unit do multiple jobs as that breaks how the army should operate. Necrons are not space marines, they cannot, nor should not, be able to accomplish multiple jobs with a single unit. The army is very specialized, almost like eldar. Each unit is a tool, and you need to figure out how to use all the tools in the best way to get the job done.

I'd much rather see Pariahs rules changed/improved then see them removed as a unit it's self. It'd be unthinkable to me to see that happen.

For the second point, Feel no pain instead of We'll be back? It's been spoken a lot around here. I would like to see We'll be back Stay, and it's a rule with a lot of character in it. Has certain pros, and cons, compared to Feel no pain, but I would like to see necrons not follow the Feel no pain bandwagon. However, I would be frothing at the mouth if that is the way things go. I would be frothing at the mouth if Pariahs became a unit upgrade though.

Where I am coming from, I have, and do, use Pariahs in my regular games. I find them a fantastic unit, and not for their Guass Blasters, or warsycthes. I don't use them at all for their killing power. Their main strength is the large Ld7 bubble they can create. get a unit, spread 'em wide and watch the enemy flee in terror. A Lord with Nightmare shroud+pariahs can create a unit that can force a lot of the opponents units to flee (while faster units like destroyers, or Scarabs prevent them from regrouping), while the Lord and Pariahs can finish off the reluctant few who hold out with their warscythes and guass blasters at the closing turns of the game.

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Old 03 May 2010, 01:25   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

I agree with the above assessment.

To improve the Pariahs in the next version of the codex I think a point drop would help, as well as improved durability, possibly more attacks, or possibly more definition in their support role. Of all the units in the 'cron codex I think Pariahs are the most confused as to what they should be doing because they have a great close combat weapon, a good shooting weapon, and great support powers, but suffer a few key flaws that limit them in each of those three roles.

If we accept that they shouldn't be Necrons, then I think a great way to help them out would be to give them FnP. Not only would this improve Pariah durability, but unlike WBB, it would also help them in close combat. It would be nice if we didn't have to footslog them across the field, but I'll leave that debate up to people that have used them (I haven't had a chance yet).
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Old 03 May 2010, 09:43   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

Assault 2 12" weapons are eldars buisness. They have the speed for them, necrons do not. Necrons need their 24" range to help whittle down the inevitably larger number of enemy befor ethey get close enough to do real hurt. Maybe Assault 2 24", it makes sense as they constantly walk forwards pouring fire into the enemy they don't stop to do it.
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Old 03 May 2010, 10:17   #5 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

How about keeping the weapons as they are and give the unit itself the Relentless USR? You know...since they're relentless :P
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Old 03 May 2010, 10:19   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

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Originally Posted by Zenai
How about keeping the weapons as they are and give the unit itself the Relentless USR? You know...since they're relentless :P
That would probably be the best idea, to be honest.
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Old 03 May 2010, 16:57   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

Hmm... I actually posted a similar idea in a thread a while back. Make them like sergeants in SM squads. Except I didn't start with the idea of pariahs. I started with the idea of tomb spiders. They wouldn't really be squad leaders as much as a support unit for repairing necrons, like a marker drone in a fire warrior squad.

I though the tomb spider would provide some hth help that necrons need, it could help in repairing them... maybe have tomb spiders replace res orbs to roll WBB against things you normally can't roll against, just an idea.

I'm not sure on pariahs. They would offer some hth bonus, having their psychic null helps against all the crazy psykers out there now.

I would rather not see them in necron squads though. I can see tomb spiders because a tomb spiders main job is to support necrons anyways. Pariahs are a unit that tend to do their own thing more.

WBB vs FnP... I'm 90% sure FnP is coming. 5th ed is about streamlining.... what is streamlined about WBB? Necrons have some of the oddest rules in the game, I have a feeling FnP is coming, but hopefully res orbs or things like res orbs would nullify ap2, x2 toughness, and PWs.

Relentless... that would be good. I'm still crossing my fingers for rending on gauss weapons though.
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Old 03 May 2010, 17:05   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

I like WBB as it is, it just needs to be taken when you take the wound, kind of like FNP; but Id rather see it be twice the T negates it not AP1 and AP2. I also somewhat agree with the fact that Pariahs should be their own thing, but we were just trying to come up with ways to make them a little bit more worth taking, because to be honest the way they are now I probably will never field them. I also like the idea of giving warriors relentless > muhahahahaha
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Old 03 May 2010, 17:24   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironwinds
WBB vs FnP... I'm 90% sure FnP is coming. 5th ed is about streamlining.... what is streamlined about WBB? Necrons have some of the oddest rules in the game, I have a feeling FnP is coming, but hopefully res orbs or things like res orbs would nullify ap2, x2 toughness, and PWs.
I would imagine they roll on a 2+ rather than a 4+ and/or allow the roll even doubt the hits are AP1/2, Double Strength or cause Instant Death.
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Old 03 May 2010, 19:32   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Pariahs in Homebrew Rules/How I'd like to see them in the next codex

I could maybe go for the attached Tomb Spyder idea as long as it's abilities are focused on keeping the Warriors alive as opposed to just offering more damage output.

Maybe instead we could get an upgrade similar in modelling style (but not rule style) that the Tyranids had in the last codex: purchase scarab swarms as upgrades for warriors (like the rippers they could get for their MCs). I think this upgrade shouldn't offer any extra attacks or wounds, but would instead augment WBB in some way. It might look cool to model too, since you'd have a bunch of little scarabs on the Warrior bases.

Just because 5th is streamlining doesn't mean they'll replace WBB, they might just make it simpler. I would also prefer for WBB to not happen at the time of wounding, since that's pretty much FnP without the AP1/2 weakness.

I like the idea of giving Warriors Relentless since it'll offer slightly more mobility, but still not make the Gauss Flayer a slightly weaker version of the Blaster.

Similar to sticking Pariahs in squads of warriors, I'd actually like to see more leadership/morale affecting powers in the Necron arsenal. Necrons are supposed to be extremely unnerving, and it would be cool to have even more units/abilities represent that. We're doing pretty well in that department with four units (Nightmare Shroud, Flayed Ones, Pariahs, The Deceiver), but it could be cool to have a blanket (army wide) ability or something. Putting Pariahs in warrior squads would do this, but I'd prefer to see something other than sergeants be the cause of that.
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