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Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders
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Old 07 Apr 2010, 05:13   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

So I've been reading all the tacticas for Necrons that I can find as well as the answers to the many questions that have been asked, and realized I wasn't sure how to do one thing that is often recommended: use tomb spyders to allow for destroyer units to act separately.

How do you properly babysit Destroyers with Tomb Spyders? The simple answer I guess would be to not move your destroyers as much as you can, but then you're restricting one of their primary advantages.

Do you guys have any ideas/recommendations as to how to maintain Destroyer mobility while remaining within the WBB helping radius of Tomb Spyders?

Thanks a bunch!
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Old 08 Apr 2010, 21:07   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

I've played against Necrons once, and they used an unusual, but quite effective tactic of surrounding their heavy Destroyers with Swarms, is this a common tactic?
Sorry if this is too off topic :P
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Old 09 Apr 2010, 02:04   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

Tomb Spiders baby sitting Destroyers? Personally, I use them more to babysit my main phalanx. Keep in mind, that the Tomb Spiders repair radius isn't too short, and if you have two or three of them, it's fairly easy to cover a vast swath of table with their repair radius. Well, at least around your army, which is what you need. I find, that with necrons, it's not very good to spread out parts on their own. I normally keep my Destroyers fairly close to the main chunk of my force, but use their mobility to get their LOS around cover and stuff.

Scarabs I've used mostly as charge denial units. Great to watch a side or flank of your force incase of deepstriking troops. Sanguinary guard, and such units are not going to be terribly happy if the only thing they can charge is scarabs.

The trouble of surrounding scarabs around destroyers and heavy destroyers, is that you'll automatically give enemy infantry cover saves, as your shooting through your own units. Wont effect when shooting at vehicles though, so I can see the use for Heavy's a bit more. I find my Heavies are only shot at, when I am stupid with their movement.
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Old 09 Apr 2010, 05:46   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

I would think that the advantage of having tomb spyders for destroyers would be that it would allow you to divide them up and cover multiple LOS pathways. But this really only works if you keep them close to your deployment since the spiders can only move 7-12" if you run them.

A quick aside: I find it somewhat odd that one of the great strengths the spiders allow us is split deployment (not having to clump into a phalanx), but that I most often see them used as a part of that phalanx to try and deter assault (which is also great, don't get me wrong). Is using them to split deployment viewed as too dangerous?
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Old 09 Apr 2010, 12:04   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

I find, That the more the force sticks together, the better I can support diffrent elements of the force. At least in the first few turns keeping together can keep units alive. Later game My destroyers spread out more, once my opponents force has been committed. I find that Destroyer squads are easily to eliminate due to small model size, also I am hesitant to allow them to take moral checks for 24% casualties, which I tend to fail. They have a long range, so it's good to let them chill in the backfield and punish infantry and things. I tend to not like shooting destroyers at tanks, so shooting through my own troops is rarely an issue when I am fighting marines, or one of the types of them.

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Originally Posted by Zeeblee
I would think that the advantage of having tomb spyders for destroyers would be that it would allow you to divide them up and cover multiple LOS pathways.
This is how I use them.
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Old 10 Apr 2010, 08:33   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

Hopefully this summer I can land at least one more tomb spyder so I can actually utilize some of their tactics (I currently only possess one).

Unrelated to the topic, but related to the conversation that's popped up: Is true LOS not used in the case of firing "through" units? I ask this because scarabs don't interfere with destroyer LOS at all, so I'm curious as to which rule takes precedence. As for firing destroyers at tanks, I find that their range is exactly why they're on tank duty in the early game, to at least glance them into submission while my infantry march up the field.

Going back to the tomb spyders. It sounds like a their WBB enhancement is really just a nice bonus tacked onto their assault control for your phalanx. I understand why you don't want to spread your destroyers out to enhance their durability, but their small squad size is not enhanced by keeping them close together (you'll be making those 25% casualty morale checks anyway), and the tomb spyder really just lets you separate those units out if you'd like to.

You have more experience than me, but I would assume keeping everything together early on also keeps you vulnerable to templates. I would think that tomb spyders can help prevent this as long as you keep them alive. I guess a smart opponent would target my tomb spyders if he saw me spreading out, but if you're combating someone going purely by the most common anti-necron advice, "only kill things with the Necron rule," then I'd think the spyders would be mostly safe from shooting. Strange that spreading out might put you into a situation in which you have to babysit the babysitter eh?
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Old 13 Apr 2010, 02:39   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

I do find that my spiders are often entirely disregarded for a whole game, or they get picked out right from the bat. The fact they can create their own ablative wounds is awesome for keeping them alive longer. I useually find that Necrons are an army based on teamwork. Units really need to work together, but this is my findings. Just because I have experience with them, doesn't mean my word is the law. However, things I have found that work for me, may be good at giving you inspiration.

Templates are something worrisome, but deployment reflects what your opponents has. If my opponent has no ordinance weapons, then I wont really care how much I bunch up. If they are rocking ordinance, I am keeping my troops obscured and my destroyers are needing to earn their keep.
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Old 13 Apr 2010, 08:59   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

Forgive me if i am wrong but isn't there a rule saying swarm units do not give coversaves to other units?

Also by LOS it wouldn't anyway.
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Old 13 Apr 2010, 09:57   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

"...intervening swarms never offer any cover save to monstrous creatures or vehicles." - Swarm Rules p. 76 BRB

I guess this means the debate is between scarabs counting as an intervening unit (providing a cover save) and the fact that with TLOS they don't obscure models (don't provide a cover save). Has this been debated before? I attempted a few searches and got nothing. The FAQ also only mentions that they use the Swarm rule and makes no mention of TLOS vs. intervening unit. I would be more conservative and rule in favor of the TLOS ruling, but I'm open to debate on the issue.

As for keeping units together for synergy I do agree that that will be the most durable (except for the case of massed ordnance), but I'm also wondering how viable a split deployment could be if the key components were properly protected. I'd imagine 'crons could do well with something like this, especially if we also bring along our redeployment tools (monoliths, VoD, jetbike movement, and Grand Illusion). I'll definitely try both of these techniques once I'm back home with my army.

Fluffwise I'm also a fan of both the phalanx and split army styles, and I hope to learn to utilize them both effectively when the situation calls for them (at least if split ends up being viable). There will definitely be much playtesting this summer when I'm back home.
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Old 13 Apr 2010, 11:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Babysitting Destroyers with Spyders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
Forgive me if i am wrong but isn't there a rule saying swarm units do not give coversaves to other units?

Also by LOS it wouldn't anyway.

*Checks Book* indeed it does seem this way, I played against a tyranid player who uses Rippers to give his guys cover saves. I assumed it was true.
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