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A Proposition
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 19:48   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 214
Default A Proposition

Dear members of the Tau Online Necron community,

Games Workshop has now been promising a new Codex:Necrons for some considerable time, and thus far has failed to deliver such a Codex. This has lead to a considerable amount of distress amongst Necron players, who are beginning to feel outdated and disadvantaged by 'Codex Creep'. Recently, this issue has been brought to light by the efforts of one Circus, who nearly succeeded in creating a workable Codex:Necrons in one week. While these efforts were applaudable, they are nonetheless the product of one brain and thus not neccessarily the views and wishes of the wider community. As such, I hereby propose that, akin to the efforts of Circus, albeit without the drastically shortened time frame, we as a Tau Online community attempt to collectively produce a coherent, balanced and effective rewrite of Codex:Necrons, with the input of multiple views and persons to greater reflect the validity of each opinion and allow new, innovative ideas to enter the project. Of course, proposals shall be freely ready to a healthy critique, and together we can surely produce a finished product at least equal in standard to that of Games Workshop's Proffessionals.
In hope of a favourable response to this initial idea, I have drafted rules and units to begin the project:
[hr]
Warning: units marked with * contain copious inspiration from the Codex:Necrons produced by Circus. The Credit must go to him for them
Confusion Warning: Units marked with a ! have been discussed under a previous, contentious name. They have been renamed in this to prevent further offense, but have until 24/2/10 been discussed as Banes.
Special Rules
Phase Out: After making all We’ll be Back rolls (including re-rolls due to the Monolith’s special rules), count the number of your models which have been destroyed or otherwise removed as a casualty. If this is 75% or more of the total number of models in your army, remove your entire army from the table - the game is an automatic loss for the Necrons, as they mysteriously disappear to prevent further casualties. This rule does not apply when playing a game using rules from the Planetstrike or Apocalypse expansion packs.
Necron: All models with the Necron special rule are subject to the Stubborn universal special rule and the We'll Be Back! Special rule. Additionally, models with the Necron special rule may not assault in the same turn as they move and fire an assault weapon.
We'll Be Back: If a model with We'll be Back is reduced to 0 wounds or would otherwise be removed as a casualty and there is another model of the same kind within 6", or if there is a Tomb Spyder or Spyder Drone within 12” and another model of the same kind on the board, leave the model on its side or another suitable marker to mark where it fell - the Necron is ‘Damaged’. Damaged Necrons are ignored for all normal game purposes (including determining whether other Necrons may attempt We’ll be Back). At the beginning of your next turn, roll a D6 for each Damaged Necron you control. On a roll of a 4 or more they stand up with one wound remaining, as part of the closest unit of the same kind.
A Necron Lord may attempt We’ll be Back even if there is no other Necron Lord within 6”, and when he does, a D6 roll of 4 restores him to one wound as normal. If he rolls a 5 for his We’ll be Back roll, he instead stands up with two wounds, and if he rolls a 6 he stands up with three wounds.
A We’ll be Back roll may not be attempted if the final wound on the model was inflicted by Instant Death, a Close Combat attack that ignores armour saves, a sweeping advance or by a failed ‘Death or Glory’ attack.
For purposes of calculating Kill Points/Victory Points, use the original number of units and models in each unit - for example, if you have two units of 10 light warriors and all models in one unit are reduced to 0 wounds. 6 of them stand up again, and join the other unit. This is one kill point for your opponent, as there is now only 1 unit when you started out with 2.
Unnerving: Any enemy unit within 6” of a model with the Unnerving special rule take a -1 leadership penalty (these are not cumulative with the effects of other Unnerving units).
Soul/Gauss Weaponry: *Any weapon with the ‘Soul’ Characteristic rolls to wound against the target’s Leadership rather than toughness. they do not affect units without a Leadership value.
If a Weapon with the ‘Gauss’ Characteristic rolls a 6 on a roll to wound or to penetrate vehicle armour, it automatically succeeds/scores a glancing hit (unless a penetrating hit would be obtained instead), even if it would not normally due to high toughness/armour values or immunity to weapons below a certain strength. Even if the vehicle normally treats glancing hits as penetrating hits, it is still rolled for as a penetrating hit. In addition, any glancing hit scored against a vehicle in this manner adds a +1 to its roll on the vehicle damage table in addition to any other modifiers
[hr]
Wargear
Glyphs: there are 7 different types of Glyph; Scythe, Power, Soul, Air, Flame, Scout and Teleport. For each model in the army with a Glyph, one other unit in the army may take 1 option from under the heading for that Glyph at the appropriate points cost
Necrodermis Body: A Necrodermis Body grants a 3+ Armour Save
Phased Necrodermis Any wound against a model with Phased Necrodermis treats its AP as one higher than it actually is - for example, an AP 4 weapon would be treated as AP5 for the purposes of penetrating the model's armour, and so would still allow an armour save to be taken
Cyborg Body: A Cyborg Body grants the wearer a 4+ armour save
Resurrection Orb If a model with the Necron special rule within 12” of a model holding a Resurrection Orb (Including the wielder) is reduced to 0 wounds or otherwise removed as a casualty, they may attempt We’ll be Back even if they were reduced to 0 wounds or removed as a casualty due to Instant Death, a close combat attack that ignored Armour saves or a sweeping advance, subject to the other stipulations.
Soulpack: At the beginning of an assault phase, you may choose to detonate the Soulpacks of any unit of Banes. Place a blast template over the head of each Bane in the unit, resolving hits as follows on any models (except for Banes in the same unit) underneath the template:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]N/A[/td][td]5[/td][td]Blast, Soul[/td][/tr][/table]
After resolving the hits of all the Soulpacks, remove the entire unit from the board - they are treated as destroyed, with no saves of any sort allowed.
Banegun: The guns used by the devotees of the C’Tan are as cheap as possible while still maintaining their effect, the Banes being primarily a suicide unit for claiming enemy souls. Baneguns fire with the following profile:
[table][tr][td][/td][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr][tr][td]Banegun[/td][td]3[/td][td]18”[/td][td]6[/td][td]Assault 1[/td][/tr][/table]
Soulgun: A Soulgun fires as follows:
[table][tr][td][/td][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr][tr][td]Soulgun[/td][td]6[/td][td]24”[/td][td]5[/td][td]Assault 3, Soul[/td][/tr][/table]

[hr]
Cybons ! 9 Points/Model

[table][tr][td] [/td] [td]WS[/td][td]BS[/td][td]S[/td][td]T[/td][td]W[/td][td]I[/td][td]A[/td][td]Ld[/td][td]Sv[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bane[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td][td]4+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Banemaster[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]7[/td][td]4+[/td][/tr] [/table]

[table][tr]
[td]Unit Composition:
  • 1 Banemaster
  • 4-14 Banes
[/td]

[td]Wargear:
  • Soulpack
  • Cyborg Body
  • Banegun
[/td]

[td]Scythe Glyph
  • Banemaster may exchange Banegun for Power Weapon (+15pts)
[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td] Unit Type: [/td]

[td] [/td] [td]Soul Glyph
  • Banemaster may exchange Banegun for Soulgun (free)
[/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td]Special Rules:
  • Unnerving
  • Stubborn
[/td]

[td][/td]
[td][/td]

[td][/td][/tr]
[/table]
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 19:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

How do you wound against leadership?

- Will
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 20:04   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

Excellent, I would be interested in this.

The whole phase necrodermis cam be altered to say:

The phase necrodermis gives the model a 4+ save but increases the AP of any wound inflicted by +1, for example an AP 4 weapon is now AP 5 granting an armour save where it didn't before.

Also I like the fix to gauss versus vehicles helping put them back into the game with reliable anti tank.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 20:13   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

This has some similar aspects to Circus' Necron Codex perhaps you could take a peek at his to see if you can get any idea whether your upgrades are too powerful or not.

Don't get me wrong I'm NOT saying you copied off him in any way.
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 21:53   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
Excellent, I would be interested in this.

The whole phase necrodermis cam be altered to say:

The phase necrodermis gives the model a 4+ save but increases the AP of any wound inflicted by +1, for example an AP 4 weapon is now AP 5 granting an armour save where it didn't before.

Also I like the fix to gauss versus vehicles helping put them back into the game with reliable anti tank.
I dont see the benifit of the Necrodermis thing... WBB isn't affected by AP, so I'm confused by this. It would still take an AP3 gun to ignore armor saves.

Gauss - On a to-pen roll of a 6, the vehicle automatically suffers a penitrating hit at AP -
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 23:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwills
Dear members of the Tau Online Necron community,

Games Workshop has now been promising a new Codex:Necrons for some considerable time, and thus far has failed to deliver such a Codex.
They have never said any such thing, where are you getting this from?

Quote:
who are beginning to feel outdated and disadvantaged by 'Codex Creep'
This is something else I have an issue with. Now, I don't play in a community entirely full of Nob biker death units, and lashprinces+9 oblitorators, but I have not at all felt that my codex anyway felt weak against the latest books. I am sure this is not just me who has not noticed this hypothetical thing called 'codex creep', but I have faought against all the latest armies, and the only one that I truly struggle against is Chaos Daemons.

I will radically suggest that perhaps it's not the book that is being affected by codex creep, but the way you use the codex. If you still play the same necron army, the same way you did in 4th edition, and the same way you played it after all the latest books keep getting released, then perhaps that is the problem. I am finding it more and more obvious that all of the units in the codex are of equal merit in the latest editions, and using reserves and the other nifty things that 5th gave us are tremendously helpful in dealing with armies in 5th and still being a competitive force.

I'm not going to talk on the subject of another houserules dex for Necrons. Mostly as I find the entire idea of these sorts of things utterly ludicrous, and a complete waste of time. I Personally feel that this is not at all necessary.
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Old 22 Feb 2010, 18:20   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

@ Grindgobble - I initially got the beleif from this thread. Further inquiries lead me to my LGS, who as good as confirmed it. In addition, they certainly do not appear to have restocked quite a few of the Necron range recently, all of which points towards such a thing. Perhaps I exaggerated the point slightly, but it still remains that the Necrons and the DE (I'm sure this is going on in their boards as well, or it should be) are long overdue a Codex.

I also have to agree that, with a radically different playing style (I have a 3/3 win with my 'Combat line' list) the Codex can be competitive, but this is not a commonly held view, and some beleive things such as this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironwinds
I wouldn't say that. I would say you'll need a very competitive list with necrons to perform well against the average enemy list. And against tourny lists of other armies you are going to be at a disadvantage.

Actually I would say necrons can't do cheese now.
Part of the problem, I think, is that where other armies can hop their units around, or tool them up to do a gazillion different potential jobs, the Necrons can't. Each unit must be played to its exact role, but those exact roles often only occur in half of the games you play, and all of the different roles you need can't really be effectively covered in the same list as you have to spam everything to prevent yourself dying.
@ WoK - This idea (I must admit, it was Circus's . Sorry, but it was so great. If you want me to think of something of my own, gimme a buzz ) is essentially that on the roll to wound table, substitute 'Target's Toughness' for 'Target's Leadership'. I'll edit to say 'has no effect on units without a Leadership Value'.
Also, Merionith & I thought: we have armys that can do swarm shooting (guard), Swarm combat (Orks), Few but Efficient shooting (Marines) and Few but Efficient Combat (CSM (I think) or Nidzilla), but nowhere do we have an army that can effectively target Leadership - a nice little niche that the Necrons can almost fill now, but do not exploit to the full. Considering how good it feels to pin one 'fex unit, how good would it feel to pin them all?
@ Goliath - The 'Phased Necrodermis' exists to provide a distinction between Light Warriors, Warriors and Banes - The C'Tan give better armour to their light scout troops than their lobotomized suicide units, and even better armour to their harder-hitting troops.
@ Unholy - alright, simpler wording to be added!
[hr]
Unit Name:Warriors 17 Points/Model

[table][tr][td] [/td][td]WS[/td][td]BS[/td][td]S[/td][td]T[/td][td]W[/td][td]I[/td][td]A[/td][td]Ld[/td][td]Sv[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Warrior[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]3+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Co-Ordinator[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]3+[/td][/tr]
[/table]

[table][tr]
[td]Unit Composition:
  • 1 Co-Ordinator
  • 4-14 Warriors
[/td]

[td]Wargear:
  • Gauss Flayers
  • Necrodermis Body
[/td]

[td]Scythe Glyph:
  • Co-Ordinator may replace his Gauss Flayer with a Power weapon and Gauss Rifle (+15 pts)
[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td] Unit Type:
  • Infantry
[/td]

[td][/td]
[td]Flame Glyph:
  • Up to three warriors may replace their Gauss Flayers with Gauss Projectors (+3 pts per model)
[/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td]Special Rules:
  • Necron
[/td]

[td][/td]
[td]Power Glyph:
  • 1 Warrior may replace its Gauss Flayer with a Gauss Bombarder (+5 pts)
[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Soul Glyph:
  • Up to 3 Warriors may replace their Gauss Flayers with Soulguns (Free)
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Teleport Glyph:
  • The Unit gains the Deep Strike rule (+2 pts per model)
[/td][/tr]
[/table]
[hr]
Unit Name:Light Warriors 14 Points/Model

[table][tr][td] [/td][td]WS[/td][td]BS[/td][td]S[/td][td]T[/td][td]W[/td][td]I[/td][td]A[/td][td]Ld[/td][td]Sv[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Light Warrior[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]3+[/td][/tr] [tr][td]Co-Ordinator[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]3+[/td][/tr]
[/table]

[table][tr]
[td]Unit Composition:
  • 1 Co-Ordinator
  • 4-14 Light Warriors
[/td]

[td]Wargear:
  • Gauss Rifles
  • Phased Necrodermis
[/td]

[td]Scout Glyph:
  • The Unit May have the Scouts special Rule (+1 pt per model)
[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td] Unit Type:
  • Infantry
[/td]

[td][/td]
[td]Flame Glyph:
  • Up to four light warriors may replace their Gauss Rifless with Gauss Projectors (+3 pts per model)
[/td][/tr]

[tr]
[td]Special Rules:
  • Necron
[/td]

[td][/td]
[td]Power Glyph:
  • up to 2 Light Warriors may replace their Gauss Rifles with Gauss Flayers (+1 pt per model)
[/td][/tr]

[tr][td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Soul Glyph:
  • The Co-Ordinator may replace its Gauss Rifle with a Soulgun (Free)
[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Teleport Glyph:
  • The Unit gains the Deep Strike rule (+2 pts per model)
[/td][/tr]
[/table]
[hr]
Unit Name:Obelisk 45 Points/Model
You may include 1 Obelisk in your army for every unit of Warriors, Light Warriors, Flayed Ones or Immortals in your army
[table][tr][td] [/td][td]Front[/td][td]Side[/td][td]Rear[/td][td]Bs[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Unit[/td] [td]12[/td][td]12[/td][td]12[/td][td]4[/td][/tr][/table]

[table][tr]
[td]Unit Composition:
  • 1 Obelisk
[/td]

[td]Wargear:
  • Teleport Glyph
[/td]

[td]Options
May take One of he following:
  • Gauss Torcher and a Flame Glyph (+15 pts)
  • Gauss Blaster and a Power Glyph (+15 pts)
  • Soulscythe and a Soul Glyph (+20 pts)
  • Twin-Linked Gauss Rifle, Air Glyph and Scout Glyph (+10 pts)
  • Staff of Light and Scythe Glyph (+15 pts)
  • Soulscreamer or Gauss Bombarder (+15 ps)
[/td]
[/tr]

[tr][td] Unit Type:
  • Vehicle - Tank
[/td]


[td]Special Rules:
  • Living Metal
  • Immobile
  • Harvest centre
[/td]

[td][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
[hr]
Wargear
Gauss Flayer: As Codex:Necrons
Gauss Blaster: As Codex:Necrons
Staff of Light: As Codex:Necrons (note: is still a Gauss weapon)
Gauss Rifles:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]24"[/td][td]6[/td][td]Assault 1, Gauss[/td][/tr][/table]
Gauss Projector:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]Template[/td][td]5[/td][td]Assault 1, Gauss[/td][/tr][/table]
Gauss Torcher:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]Template[/td][td]4[/td][td]Assault 1, Gauss[/td][/tr][/table]
Soulscythe:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9[/td][td]12"[/td][td]3[/td][td]Assault 3, Soul[/td][/tr][/table]
Gauss Bombarder:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]36"[/td][td]5[/td][td]Heavy 1, Large Blast, Gauss[/td][/tr][/table]
Soulscreamer:
[table][tr][td]Strength[/td][td]Range[/td][td]AP[/td][td]Type[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9[/td][td]36"[/td][td]5[/td][td]Heavy 1, Large Blast, Pinning, Soul[/td][/tr][/table]
Units that are normally unaffected by Pinning tests or pass them automatically still have to take them against a Soulscreamer.
[hr]
Special Rules
Living Metal: As Codex:Necrons
Immobile: The vehicle may not move under any circumstances, and is treated as having suffered an irreparable immobilized result.
Harvest Centre: After deployment, but before the 1st turn or any scout moves are made, all of your obelisks must deep strike onto the board as per the usual rules. Should any Obelisk deep strike on top of anything that would cause a Deep Strike mishap, reduce the scatter distance by the minimum necessary to avoid a mishap and remain at least 1" away from any enemy units. Necron units (except for non-walker vehicles) that attempt to deep strike within 6" of an Obelisk may decide whether or not to scatter as normal.
[hr]

All comments and criticisms are welcome - nay, desired! Don't be shy, if you have an idea or think something is unbalanced, please post it. And please, do not flame anyone should they do so, rather attempt to provide a reasoned argumaent against them should you oppose their view.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demitriusnassy
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Quote:
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Turning the Power Matrix into some kind of Disco Ball of Death? :P
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Old 22 Feb 2010, 18:48   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

I don't like the idea of having "squad leader" units. Necrons don't do that crap.

Also combine the two template weapons (torcher and projector) into one. There is barely a difference in the two, and it just complicates things.

Not everything has to be called Gauss ........ (generic name).

Why the hell can warriors take a bombarder. Way too big a weapon for the grunts.

Explain what the hell the glyphs are!

Why is the bombarder and the soulscreamer the same amount of points?

Also bump it to AV13. And increase the points considerably.
[hr]

Final note: I thought we are making our own codex not Circus MKII.

ps. Don't expect sugar coated words.
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Old 22 Feb 2010, 19:01   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: A Proposition

Just so you know, I am watching this, and I can see what's being done with my ideas without any kind of communication from the OP.
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Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

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Old 22 Feb 2010, 19:27   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: A Proposition

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwills

Glyphs: there are 7 different types of Glyph; Scythe, Power, Soul, Air, Flame, Scout and Teleport. For each model in the army with a Glyph, one other unit in the army may take 1 option from under the heading for that Glyph at the appropriate points cost
There. Glyph explaination - is it not clear enough? the intention is that one model takes a glyph, so one unit can take an upgrade - unit flexibility.

Are we looking for a Bombarder cost increase/decrease, or a Soulscreamer cost increase/decrease? input perfectly valid (and probbably more valid than my own, relatively inexperianced opinion).

Should the warriors have access to a Heavy weapon - or perhaps simply some Gauss blasters?

And Circus - just say the word, and its bye-bye soul weapons.
Shall we try and stay away from copying Codex:Circus, to keep him happy?

and unholy, a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down!
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The Merioneth and Llantisilly Railway Traction Company Ltd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demitriusnassy
Haha ;D I am Bob, the devourer of Souls. ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man They Call Jayne
Turning the Power Matrix into some kind of Disco Ball of Death? :P
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