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Friend starting Necrons, unsure of how to advise him.
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Old 11 Nov 2009, 23:18   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Friend starting Necrons, unsure of how to advise him.

As you've no doubt gathered from the title, I have a friend starting necrons. I wan to be able to advice and teach him about the hobby, but that's quite difficult if I don't know anything about necrons (or, worse, if the advice I give him is wrong. I've read the codex and have fought them before, but that really doesn't give me the best Idea of how they work. I certainly don't have experience with every unit, but I do have guesses. I'll go unit by unit and post what I know, if I'm wrong you can correct me

HQ
C'tan: Since he's just starting out I doubt I'll be seeing these. From what I've seen of them, they're either a complete boon or total waste. I've watched a nightbringer tear through 30 Lootas and insta-kill a warboss before exploding and taking a good chunk of the army with him, and I've seen one sort of loiter around and do nothing all game until phaseout got it.

Lords: Even if there is a C'tan, it seems foolish to me to leave home without a lord. He doesn't strike me as a monster, but kind of like a more durable farseer. He can fight, but he's better at support.

ELITES
Pariahs: I don't get these guys. They ignore invulnerable saves, but are expensive and don't count toward phaseout. I can only see them being useful against Wyches or on a charge against TH/SS terminators.

Flayed Ones: These seem to be a more reasonable combat choice, but underwhelming. The infiltrate and MTC would make me advise him to use them like combat scouts with better armor.

Immortals: Aside from price (points and money), I fail to see a downside to these guys. They're really that good and still necrons; I think the blister price is the only thing keeping me from seeing them more often.

TROOPS
Warriors: It's the only thing here. I've noticed that they seem to come in two styles; minimized or oodles and gobs. The latter tend to have a high phaseout number and seems more practical to me.

FAST ATTACK
Destroyers: The internet seems to like them, but I rarely see them at the FLGS. They seem analogous to SM Attack Bikes or Dethkoptas, mobile heavy guns.

Wraiths: I've always loved the wraith model (so does he), but we both have our doubts about the unit. It's fast, but it doesn't seem like it does much once it gets into combat.

Scarabs: I see them a lot; they're part of the reason I take Missiles and Flamers in my Tacticals. They're not deadly so much as irritating, tying up shooty squads and popping the occasional vehicle.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Monolith: He really wants one, and I keep telling him it's a gamble. It's very resistant to fire, but is quite expensive (which takes away necron bodies) and slow. He wants to use it a sort of a lynchpin, which is why I don't like the risk. The only Necron Armies I've seen that rely on them tended to fall apart if it was lost.

Heavy Destroyers: He also likes these. I must say, so do I. A bike mounted lascannon is difficult for me to argue with.

Tomb Spyders: He's a fan of them, which surprises me. Most people I've talked to yammer aobut how useless they are. He likes the repair rule and the MC status, he's talked about keeping them close to his warriors should they be caught in CC.

So, that's what I know. I've read the article on Building an army out of Battleforces (which is an awesome article, by the way) and shown it to him. Let me know if any advice is bad.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 12 Nov 2009, 00:33   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advice him.

Necrons have it a little rough right now, since close combat was always their weakness and it has gotten more effective.

All Necron armies need a stable core of Warriors and a Lord. Monoliths are becoming less and less of a risk in 5th Edition. The trend has been for Melta Weaponry to dominate lists, and the Monolith is very resistant to it. It also gives you the important ability to pull units out of assault when you need to.

I think starting with the Battleforce is a good idea.
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Old 12 Nov 2009, 02:31   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advice him.

I know the 'crons have got it bad in the combat department, the whole "lower leadership by casualties" leads to more sweeping advances, which if I recall correctly WBB doesn't cover. I really need to know what you get WBB from and what you don't; I don't want him inadvertently cheating.

I thought the Warriors/Lord would be a good core; the codex nearlay mandates it with the HQ and Troop choices. I haven't encountered a monolith in 5th yet; the one game I saw it used it managed to immobilize itself.

Oklahoma seems to resist change (politically, economically), and the 40k metagame isn't any different. I tried using Multi-Meltas this last tourney and quickly found that if anything was within 12", I simply ran over and punched it rather than risk the miss. Melta isn't too popular around here, I'm not sure if that favors him or not.

He's trying to save up for three[battleforces], which is a big investment. That will get him a fair amount of Warriors, some of which I may have to help him convert into Immortals. I don't have any Greenstuff to make the shoulders out of, I'm thinking of just modifying the legs and body to make them stand up straight.

He was talking to me about it today. He said that necrons seem to have a certain rhythm and thought that they would suffer if that rhythm were thrown off. This is true with any army[eldar, ravenwing], but it made me think about Necrons in particular.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 12 Nov 2009, 12:19   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advice him.

You get WBB from everything except guns that are double your toughness and CC weapons that don't allow armor saves (So a wraith gets hit by a power weapon, you take its invul which is its only save, and you fail it. You do NOT get WBB unless there is a rezorb). Keep in mind that you DO get WBB from AP whatever guns even if they ignore armor.

The only thing that a rezorb doesn't allow WBB from is sweeping advance.

If he's getting 3 battleforces, then he's set for life. You can convert warriors into immortals/flayed ones easily. Destroyers are probably the best unit in the necron codex. Period. Take 15 and minimum number of warriors, Destroyerlord with Rezorb (If you have a hand for converting you can attempt to convert the extra 3 Destroyers you get into Heavies). 15 Destroyers going around the board edge harrasing enemy units, and pulling them in close so your Ctan can lay down some smack.

Monoliths are very durable. I've only had mine killed in a few games. They are also good for support. Lost half a squad even AFTER WBB? No problem, take it through the portal and reroll all those failed ones. Don't have anything to take through? Shoot the Low AP, High Strength Large blast ORDINANCE that if you hit something with the center hole becomes AP1. It's hard to NOT pop anything with that. :P

Tomb Sypders... Yeah. Awesome. Just watch out for WS5 or you hit on 5's.
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Old 16 Nov 2009, 02:16   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advice him.

Quote:
You get WBB from everything except guns that are double your toughness and CC weapons that don't allow armor saves (So a wraith gets hit by a power weapon, you take its invul which is its only save, and you fail it. You do NOT get WBB unless there is a rezorb). Keep in mind that you DO get WBB from AP whatever guns even if they ignore armor.

The only thing that a rezorb doesn't allow WBB from is sweeping advance.
Ah, see, he was playing a game (The nickels and pennies style that we all started with) against his brother's 'nids. I wasn't there, but his brother said he got WBB from his hive tyrant and that's what made him loose. This didn't sound right to me, I'll be sure to let him know.

Quote:
If he's getting 3 battleforces, then he's set for life. You can convert warriors into immortals/flayed ones easily. Destroyers are probably the best unit in the necron codex. Period. Take 15 and minimum number of warriors, Destroyerlord with Rezorb (If you have a hand for converting you can attempt to convert the extra 3 Destroyers you get into Heavies). 15 Destroyers going around the board edge harrasing enemy units, and pulling them in close so your Ctan can lay down some smack.
He didn't seem keen on the flying circus style, he seem like he leans toward a phalanx. Destroyers look like the dominant Fast Attack choice to me.

Quote:
Monoliths are very durable. I've only had mine killed in a few games. They are also good for support. Lost half a squad even AFTER WBB? No problem, take it through the portal and reroll all those failed ones. Don't have anything to take through? Shoot the Low AP, High Strength Large blast ORDINANCE that if you hit something with the center hole becomes AP1. It's hard to NOT pop anything with that.
Like I said, it's just my experience. I've seen one used very well, but he didn't use it as a keystone. Even if he lost it, that didn't mean he lost the game. Warrior heavy list, I noticed.

Quote:
Tomb Sypders... Yeah. Awesome. Just watch out for WS5 or you hit on 5's.
Ugh, as a tau player, I know that pain. The only common things I can think of that would have that are Genestealers (which his brother will have), Khorne Berserkers, or Khorne Deamons. I should think that if you're in combat with bloodletters, something has gone terribly wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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Old 16 Nov 2009, 17:10   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advise him.

If you can still get them, there is a great deal for starting a necron army it's the Necron Warrior Phalanx box it runs about $200 and has a lord 48 warriors 12 scarabs and 6 destroyers along with a monolith. Unfortunatly I think that Games Workshop discontinued selling them recently but there should still be a few floating around. It's a great way to start a Necron army!
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Old 16 Nov 2009, 17:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advise him.

The problem with monoliths is they can only be properly implemented in a 1500point game.

Even then most people don't know how to use it. The way it gets it's points back is by saving squads from being stuck in combat and keeping yourself mobile. Of course take the particle whip if a great oppurtunity rises and the teleport isn't needed.

I used it extremely well the other week as joined with my VOD lord (with immortals) I was able to go the whole battle losing 4 warriors and 3 immortals (plus one scrabble swarm that got into combat with the ENTIRE guard army!).

There are great tactics to do with it: send it hovering behind a warrior squad as they march forwards. If the warriors are assualted teleport them out and rapid fire.

Monoliths are all about how you use it.
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Old 17 Nov 2009, 03:51   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Freind starting Necrons, unsure of how to advise him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unholy Harbinger
The problem with monoliths is they can only be properly implemented in a 1500point game.

Even then most people don't know how to use it. The way it gets it's points back is by saving squads from being stuck in combat and keeping yourself mobile. Of course take the particle whip if a great oppurtunity rises and the teleport isn't needed.

I used it extremely well the other week as joined with my VOD lord (with immortals) I was able to go the whole battle losing 4 warriors and 3 immortals (plus one scrabble swarm that got into combat with the ENTIRE guard army!).

There are great tactics to do with it: send it hovering behind a warrior squad as they march forwards. If the warriors are assualted teleport them out and rapid fire.

Monoliths are all about how you use it.
That is what I mean. The guy used it very well, but what I really thought was great is that he didn't fall apart if he lost it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore
If you can still get them, there is a great deal for starting a necron army it's the Necron Warrior Phalanx box it runs about $200 and has a lord 48 warriors 12 scarabs and 6 destroyers along with a monolith. Unfortunatly I think that Games Workshop discontinued selling them recently but there should still be a few floating around. It's a great way to start a Necron army!
I'll tell him about that. He won't order from our local store (I'd like it to stay open), so if he's not doing that he may as well take advantage of what's out there. That's pretty much exactly what he wants too.

Aside from Finances, He'll need to know Necron Army Archetypes. I know Phalanx and Flying Circus, and I can guess what Wraithwing is. I've heard of "Two Towers" and I guess it involves a pair of monoliths, but what else? The last is mostly for my own curiosity.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runer60000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead
I believe so, I get mine at Walgreen's for around $7. Brake Fluid works too (Pine Sol Works on metals, not so well on plastics), but I prefer the spraycanniness of the Easy Off. Spray it (Wear gloves, it's important), let it sit, and take a toothbrush to it later.
so what your saying is that oven cleaner can remove paint from plastic models? and after that, you take a toothbrush to your plastic model, and the paint just comes off?
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