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Some questions about Necrons
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Old 19 May 2009, 06:31   #1 (permalink)
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Default Some questions about Necrons

C'tan special abilities require psychic test?


- So far i've been using them as 'special rules' with no test required but I wanted to be clear on that.

And also if i use the deceive ability on one unit to make them get pinned or take a morale check, does that count as 'shooting' at the unit.

Meaning can I make unit A that's 18" away but in line of sight take a pinning test and then assault unit B that's within my assault range?


- Again i've been using 'Deceive' as a special power and not counting it as an actual shooting attack even though im 'targetting' a unit during the shooting phase. So I just wanted to know if i'm using it legally.

Can you fire the Particle Whip from the monolith on the turn you deep strike it?

- Deep Striking counts as moving cruising speed but particle whip says you are always able to shoot it even if shaken/stunned. I know you can't shoot the gauss projectors but the particle whip seems fair game to me on the turn u deep strike.

Can C'tan be instant killed?

- The rules doesn't appear to give them instant death protection but i've seen a few necron players claim that they are immune which I don't understand where they get that from.

In the FAQ it points out that Res Orb compatibility is affected at the time the necron model is damaged. So for WBB purposes if in the shooting phase Unit A of necrons gets downed by enemy fire while Unit B is within 6" of it at the time this happens. They are eligible for WBB?

So what happens if during the assault phase Unit B gets assaulted and killed. Does unit A also get destroyed or does it get to make it's WBB at the start of the next turn?


- I've been assuming that it works similar to synapse where you check who's within 6" of a model of the same type to allow WBB. Or does this happen differently?

Ah almost forgot I was wondering about this one. According to the Particle Whip rule any model under the center of the blast marker is hit with AP 1. So does that include vehicles? Is the particle whip always S9 AP 1 against them? (assuming that the center didn't scatter off the vehicle's hull)

- I wasn't sure about this so I never called it an AP 1 shot, but it certainly would be useful to have an 'AP 1 lascannon' around for certain vehicles.
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Old 19 May 2009, 16:20   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

C'tan special abilities require psychic test?

- powers requiring psychic test are detailed under the power stated. No such entries for Ctan. Therefore no test to use thepower.

And also if i use the deceive ability on one unit to make them get pinned or take a morale check, does that count as 'shooting' at the unit.

- It has range requirement, it's shooting at the unit.

Meaning can I make unit A that's 18" away but in line of sight take a pinning test and then assault unit B that's within my assault range?

- RAI, you can't shoot A & assault B.

Can you fire the Particle Whip from the monolith on the turn you deep strike it?

- There is no cruising speed for Liths. It's a max 6" movement. Yup you can fire the PW.
- You can even fire the GFAP if you don't want to use PW. If your opponent is technical then you gain 12" moving your Lith for the rest of your game with him. ;D

Can C'tan be instant killed?

- current rule for Instant death is Weapon STR Tx2 = ID. CTan's are T8.
- If there are weapons that have ID/IK as special rules, then it can IK the Ctan.

In the FAQ it points out that Res Orb compatibility is affected at the time the necron model is damaged. So for WBB purposes if in the shooting phase Unit A of necrons gets downed by enemy fire while Unit B is within 6" of it at the time this happens. They are eligible for WBB?

So what happens if during the assault phase Unit B gets assaulted and killed. Does unit A also get destroyed or does it get to make it's WBB at the start of the next turn?


- we always played it as Lord with RO can make WBB rolls for squads (even if they are not within 6" of any other same unit). Yes Unit A can make WBB rolls if it's within 6" of RO.

Ah almost forgot I was wondering about this one. According to the Particle Whip rule any model under the center of the blast marker is hit with AP 1. So does that include vehicles? Is the particle whip always S9 AP 1 against them? (assuming that the center didn't scatter off the vehicle's hull)

- models = unit types (BBB pp3)
- infantry & vehicle = unit types
- therefore S9 AP1 is correct
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Old 19 May 2009, 18:10   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

I see thank you, at least now I have a different opinion from what others have been saying, making this a less one sided debate.

The differences being on your judgement on the deceive ability being a shooting attack due to having a range requirement.

And the monolith not moving cruising speed when it deep strikes.
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Old 19 May 2009, 21:13   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

Oh, it's definitely a shooting attack. It's an attack with a range in the shooting phase. It targets a specific unit. What else is it?

Keep in mind that abilities/psyk attacks that are targeted on a unit in the shooting phase, and that have a range are all treated as shooting attacks as well.
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Old 20 May 2009, 04:52   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

Quote:
In the FAQ it points out that Res Orb compatibility is affected at the time the necron model is damaged. So for WBB purposes if in the shooting phase Unit A of necrons gets downed by enemy fire while Unit B is within 6" of it at the time this happens. They are eligible for WBB?

So what happens if during the assault phase Unit B gets assaulted and killed. Does unit A also get destroyed or does it get to make it's WBB at the start of the next turn?
The Res Orb comes into effect when the unit is damaged, however other criteria must be met in order for a necron to get a WBB roll. Namely, there must be a model of the same type within 6" of the downed unit, or a tomb spyder within 12" and a model of the same type on the battlefield. Because this criteria is not met the necrons in your example do not get their WBB.

Resurrection Orb doesn't automatically give a WBB in any situation, only when the downed unit was killed by a CC weapon that ignores armour saves and a weapon with a strength value double the target's toughness. There still must be a necron of the same type within WBB range.
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Old 20 May 2009, 05:50   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Oh, it's definitely a shooting attack. It's an attack with a range in the shooting phase. It targets a specific unit. What else is it?

Keep in mind that abilities/psyk attacks that are targeted on a unit in the shooting phase, and that have a range are all treated as shooting attacks as well.
Ok with this post, that makes it 5 in favor of 'no it's not a shooting attack' to 2 'against'

Something i should discuss with my opponent.

Just so u know the argument in favor is that the power ONLY specifies what phase it's used on, it never makes any mention about being a shooting attack. In comparison to every other similar power/ability that does normally specify 'this counts as a shooting' attack.

There's a fair argument on both ends.
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Old 20 May 2009, 23:32   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by omegatron
Can C'tan be instant killed?

- current rule for Instant death is Weapon STR Tx2 = ID. CTan's are T8.
- If there are weapons that have ID/IK as special rules, then it can IK the Ctan.
Hence why this broken codex need to be fixed!!!!
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Old 21 May 2009, 00:16   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

Deceive is a special rule that doesn't not state it's a shooting attack. It's not a psychic ability thus doesn't fall within the psychic rules. Yes, it has range and is done during the Shooting phase but that's the extent of the similarities. You might as well say running is a shooting attack since it too has range and is done in the Shooting phase.
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Old 21 May 2009, 05:26   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

I seem to have put the quotation around the entirety of my post rather than the initial quote. Fixed to avoid any confusion and to clarify my original post.

And to further add to the discussion the Deceive power meets most of but not all criteria needed to qualify as a shooting attack. It has a range, requires line of sight, and a single target. What it doesn't require is that actual motion of shooting as you do not have to take the Deceiver's ballistic skill into account in order to use the power. From my standpoint enough of the shooting criteria is met to qualify it as a shooting attack. The Deceiver cannot run the same turn he uses deceive as you cannot choose to run and perform some other power or form of attack in the same shooting phase. The way I have played it and will continue to play it is Deceive counts as a shooting attack. There is more evidence to support this statement than there is against it.
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Old 21 May 2009, 12:31   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Some questions about Necrons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
I seem to have put the quotation around the entirety of my post rather than the initial quote. Fixed to avoid any confusion and to clarify my original post.

And to further add to the discussion the Deceive power meets most of but not all criteria needed to qualify as a shooting attack. It has a range, requires line of sight, and a single target. What it doesn't require is that actual motion of shooting as you do not have to take the Deceiver's ballistic skill into account in order to use the power. From my standpoint enough of the shooting criteria is met to qualify it as a shooting attack. The Deceiver cannot run the same turn he uses deceive as you cannot choose to run and perform some other power or form of attack in the same shooting phase. The way I have played it and will continue to play it is Deceive counts as a shooting attack. There is more evidence to support this statement than there is against it.
Except, it doesn't use a BS, is not a psychic power, nor does the rule state it's a shooting power. There are plenty of psychic powers that require LOS, target selection, and have range, that do NOT count as a shooting power.

The only argument supporting it's a shoot power is that it's done during the Shooting phase, which, in of itself, is not enough justification to call it a Shooting attack.
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