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Necrons & Liths
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 04:55   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Necrons & Liths

From Codex : Necrons FAQ

Q. Can units of Necron warriors enter from reserves as normal or must they enter via Monolith ?
ANSWER:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...th_Edition.pdf

Interesting ruling here, Necron 3th ed was being assimilated to 5th ed reserve rules.

Scenario :
CSM 1k sons vs Crons (i'm not anal about points cost)

CSM 1ksons
2 flying lash princes
4 squads of 1ksons sorcs with WoC and rhinos
9 Oblits

Necrons
2 Liths
3 Spyders (1 squad)
5 squads of warriors 12man per squad
1Lord
2 squads of 10 Pariahs
PO # : 16models

Standard Mission

Deployment.
CSM deploys all, dual lash strategy.
Necrons deploy 2 Liths, 2 troops, 2 Pariah squad. spyders. declares 2 crons squads arriving via Lith (reserve), 1 squad arriving via table edge.

1st turn. CSM
2 lash princes reel in the 2 warrior squads.
1K sons in rhino moves 6" disembarks shoots WoC and RF AP3 bolters. 2 warrior squads decimated.
9 lascannon shots from Oblits destroys 2 Liths. (loaded dice) ;D

1st turn Cron.
2 full squad of Pariahs
3 Tomb Spyders on the table

What happens ?





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Old 28 Apr 2009, 05:08   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

The warriors in reserve are destroyed and the Necrons lose.

Page two of the FAQ, left hand side, half way down.
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 05:26   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
The warriors in reserve are destroyed and the Necrons lose.

Page two of the FAQ, left hand side, half way down.
yup. that's what the link says ;D

What 'event' triggered the PO ?
Was it after the Assault Phase of CSM turn 1 or after WBB Cron turn 1
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 08:45   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

Yup, in this scenario the necrons phase out. No WBB rolls are made as all models with the necron special rule were destroyed on the very first turn. I assume the lord was destroyed along with one of the units of warriors?

In either case it was distinctly declared that those two units of warriors in reserve were going to enter the battlefield through a monolith, no monolith's were available so both units are destroyed leaving only 12 necron models. Instant phase out.

I hope this isn't a continuation of our last debate...is it?
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 12:55   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

it may brush a thought or two.

Necron 5th ed FAQ
Q. Do Necrons that are down and awaiting an
opportunity to make their We’ll Be Back
(henceforth WBB) roll count as Necrons of the
same type for determining whether a WBB roll
can be made?
A. No they do not count.


AFAIK there are only two places an army could be.
1 is on-the-table and the other 1 is off-the-table.

damaged crons are in the same status as reserve's (off-the-table), awaiting for the opportunity to trigger.
the FAQs RAW is that damaged necrons lose their necron SP while on the limbo (awaiting WBB).

interesting thing is that the phaseout can be triggered by any factor. in the FAQ it says that as soon as all Liths are destroyed, it doesn't matter what phase, (Movement, Shooting or Assault), when the criteria is satisfied, the PO triggers.

just expressing my thoughts.
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 23:52   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

I see nothing that says phase out ignores models in reserves.

It is actually possible to start a model with no necrons on the table. Such a ridiculous ruling would result in an autoloss.

Checking for wbb after phase out is new though, but quite clear. Definitely makes it more of a danger, though not ridiculously so.
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Old 29 Apr 2009, 02:55   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
I see nothing that says phase out ignores models in reserves.

It is actually possible to start a model with no necrons on the table. Such a ridiculous ruling would result in an autoloss.

Checking for wbb after phase out is new though, but quite clear. Definitely makes it more of a danger, though not ridiculously so.
Maybe that is why it is explicit that you have to have the minimum FOC (2 troops) in the table (deployed) before being elgible for Reserve option.
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Old 29 Apr 2009, 03:43   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

Your scenario does indeed show how a Necron army could be phased out in turn one. A bit contrived but it can happen.

Do note: you cannot field two units of Pariahs are the unit is marked 0-1.
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Old 29 Apr 2009, 06:16   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

Necron 5th ed FAQ
Q. Do Necrons that are down and awaiting an
opportunity to make their We’ll Be Back
(henceforth WBB) roll count as Necrons of the
same type for determining whether a WBB roll
can be made?
A. No they do not count.

This isn't saying they lose the necron special rule. You can't measure WBB range from one downed necron to another. For example there are two necron warriors from two different units left standing; Warrior A and Warrior B. They are within 6" of each other. Warrior A gets knocked down but is allowed a WBB roll because he is within 6" of Warrior B, Warrior A gets back up. Warrior B gets knocked down but once again is allowed to make a WBB roll because Warrior B is nearby, Warrior B gets back up. Both Warrior A and Warrior B get knocked down in the same phase, they are not allowed a WBB roll because they now don't count as the type that would allow that roll. In essence, you cannot measure WBB range from a corpse.

Phase out is a fixed number based on the amount of necrons within the army, if we were to play the way you interpret it Omegatron the phase out number would fluctuate throughout the entire game and continually get smaller as more and more necrons were killed. That wouldn't make any sense.

And yes, Pariah's are 0-1. I agreed on your scenario for hypothetical sake.
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Old 29 Apr 2009, 08:30   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Necrons & Liths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
This isn't saying they lose the necron special rule. You can't measure WBB range from one downed necron to another. For example there are two necron warriors from two different units left standing; Warrior A and Warrior B. They are within 6" of each other. Warrior A gets knocked down but is allowed a WBB roll because he is within 6" of Warrior B, Warrior A gets back up. Warrior B gets knocked down but once again is allowed to make a WBB roll because Warrior B is nearby, Warrior B gets back up. Both Warrior A and Warrior B get knocked down in the same phase, they are not allowed a WBB roll because they now don't count as the type that would allow that roll. In essence, you cannot measure WBB range from a corpse.
technically, the 'damaged' necrons is not a 'casualty' or corpse, it's on 'out-of-the-table' like reserves. 'alive' and waiting for opportunity to get back on-the-table. the 'marker' (downed unit, dice, pebbles) lost any vestige of the Necron that was there. this is the 5th example that if you can't measure 'to-and-from' a unit it ain't a Necron with SP. It's a necron no doubt, but not a Necron w SR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
Phase out is a fixed number based on the amount of necrons within the army, if we were to play the way you interpret it Omegatron the phase out number would fluctuate throughout the entire game and continually get smaller as more and more necrons were killed. That wouldn't make any sense.
yup. I agree. phase out number is fixed at the start of the game, it's included on the necron army list. and it doesn't change throughout the game. Now what is on the table (deployed), is based on what the Cron general can risk knowing this limitation (my POV).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
And yes, Pariah's are 0-1. I agreed on your scenario for hypothetical sake.
that was an oversight. shows I'm not using Pariahs. lolz.
now if Pariahs can cast Psychic powers like Chaos sorcs that would be the day.
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