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Limbo Necrons granting a cover save
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 22:05   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Just wanted your guys thoughts on this.

Necrons that are in limbo between death and the we'll-be-back roll are placed on their side. Say you attempt to fire at a Necron warrior squad that has it's front rank down. According to the 5th edition rulebook, anything that's blocking the model in LOS grants the unit a cover save. I believe that the Necron codex states Necrons toppled over like this count as debris or something.

Does this mean that the dead models of a squad of warriors grant the remaining warriors a cover save?
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 22:36   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

The codex says they count as debris but also says that downed necrons are ignored completely for all normal game purposes. They do not give other necrons a cover save as downed models are used simply to keep track of how many WBB rolls are needed to make. If you look under the cover save table you will notice that debris isn't mentioned. The downed necrons are essentially decorative, just like bomb squigs and ammo runts, they serve no in game purpose until they have passed their WBB roll.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 04:20   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
The codex says they count as debris but also says that downed necrons are ignored completely for all normal game purposes. They do not give other necrons a cover save as downed models are used simply to keep track of how many WBB rolls are needed to make. If you look under the cover save table you will notice that debris isn't mentioned. The downed necrons are essentially decorative, just like bomb squigs and ammo runts, they serve no in game purpose until they have passed their WBB roll.
The specific section that lists the "Well Be Back!" rule does not specifically state that the models are ignored for normal game purposes. It only states that that model (1) ignores coherency and (2) cannot be attacked.

Core rulebook 5: Page 2, Column 1, Paragraph 2
States that cover is anything that is hiding a target.

Then, in the next paragraph the rulebook states (paraphrased):
If any part of the model's body is covered, it counts as being in cover. It also says to be very generous about it.

I know this seems ridiculous, and I personally think that this is silly, but my friend pointed this out to me, and from a RAW perspective, I had to agree with him.

I was wondering if anyone else had read anything that would invalidate this.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 09:54   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Page 13 of the necron codex, under the WBB heading states; "Damaged Necrons are ignored completely for all normal game purposes such as unit coherency, measuring ranges, calculating whether other units can self-repair, and so on - they are debris only."

The specific items in this description that discredit the thought of downed necrons giving other units a cover save is "all normal game purposes" and "and so on". All normal game purposes refers to anything included in the standard rules without straying into other codex/unit specific rules, cover saves are normal game rules and as such the WBB rule specifically states that damaged necrons are ignored. The "and so on" aspect of the WBB description is the same thing as writing etc, in the sense that coherency, measuring ranges, and calculating whether or not other units can self-repair are just a few examples of this rule and not the only application.

To sum it up, downed Necrons do not give other units a cover save.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 17:49   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

I immediately thought of the sentence that Gabriel_ has since posted. The downed Necrons are simply ignored. They are purely there for reference, to allow us to accurately measure distance for whether or not they are in range to legally make a WBB roll. They are not used for any other purposes.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 18:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

I'm sorry to keep dragging this on, but the codex I have in my hands reads:
Page 13, The last sentence of the first paragraph in "Well Be Back"
"Damaged Necrons ignore the normal coherency rules and cannot be attacked in any way-they are seen as just more battlefield debris." Which does not state that Necrons are ignored for normal game purposes, and goes on to specifically list what you should exempt those models from.

Where is that quote from, Gabriel_? Is it possible I have a different edition?

The FAQs don't help with this matter.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 18:09   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Perhaps this is a change between the first and second printings of hte Necron codex? Pike, you should check the table of contents page of your codex. Somewhere around the bottom-center of the page it should say 'Second Printing.' The second printing certainly isn't up to date enough to deal with 5th edition, but it does clear up some of the rules a bit. I know my brother's 'dex is the Second Printing, and I'm pretty sure that the line that Gabriel_ is talking about it in there.

EDIT: I just double-checked. The last sentence of the first parapgraph under "We'll be back" reads exactly as Gabriel_ has posted, and this is the Second Printing (which should be above the Games Workshop contact adresses on the bottom of the table of contents). You probally have the original printing.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 20:58   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droids_Rule
Perhaps this is a change between the first and second printings of hte Necron codex? Pike, you should check the table of contents page of your codex. Somewhere around the bottom-center of the page it should say 'Second Printing.' The second printing certainly isn't up to date enough to deal with 5th edition, but it does clear up some of the rules a bit. I know my brother's 'dex is the Second Printing, and I'm pretty sure that the line that Gabriel_ is talking about it in there.

EDIT: I just double-checked. The last sentence of the first parapgraph under "We'll be back" reads exactly as Gabriel_ has posted, and this is the Second Printing (which should be above the Games Workshop contact adresses on the bottom of the table of contents). You probally have the original printing.
OK thanks. That settles it then.
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Old 26 Feb 2009, 21:31   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Yes, I have the second printing. This isn't the first time there has been a debate between both editions of the necron codex, in actuality making two editions of the same codex has caused a great deal of confusion among players.
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Old 27 Feb 2009, 01:54   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Limbo Necrons granting a cover save

Yea, you always have to make sure they have the second printing of the codex before you can decide how the rules work with it.

We should have just got a new codex.
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