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Weird Noob Question.
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 11:19   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 21
Default Weird Noob Question.

I have a question out of something that happened yesterday.
I was playing another newer person. Both of us are trying to get each other better so when something happens we follow this process:
1) discuss what happened and what we both think should happen
2)read the rules to each other and try to understand them the same way and agree what each rule states
3)Consider what everything in all rules that apply to the situation states and agree on an outcome of the situation.
Yesterday, we had something totaly stump us. While we came up with a solution, still had fun, I'd like to know everyones opinions.

Situation:
I decided to use V.O.D. to teleport behind a unit on turn 3.
The rules says on pg 15 of the codex that ( paraphrased here) you take the units off, and then place them back on the table USING THE DEEP STRIKE RULES.
While this may be incorrect, When using VOD, I take the lord and place him where i want to teleport to. Then i roll the scatter and 2d6 to find out if i am totaly on target, or which way and how far i'm off.
Action:
I place my lord and roll the scatter and 2d6. I move in the direction of the arrow and find that the lord has now come into base contact with something. According to the deep strike rules (page 95 of the warhammer 40k rulebok under the deep strike mishaps topic) it says ( again i'm paraphrasing) if you land off the bale, in inpassable terrain,on top of a friendly model, or within 1" from an enemy model, something has gone wrong. The controlling player then rolls 1d6 and applys the roll to the mishap table found on page 95 of the rulebook.
I rolled and happened to roll a 6 (this is the delay mishap)
the delay mishap basically says that you place them back in reserve. if this happens on turn 5 or later, and the game ends the unit counts as destroyed.

Question:
Knowing it was turn 3, Im using VOD, and rolled for scatter and put me within 1"of an enemy model, according to the deep strike rules I must Roll on the mishap table.
I roll a 6 which is delay and im to put my units in reserve.
Do i then REMOVE the unit from the board that this happened to, place them in reserve, and roll for them to come out before turn 5?
Or
Does this mean that they stay where they are before the lord used VOD cannot move or shoot for that turn and they can try to VOD again next turn because they werent really in reserve and were in play before the mishap?

Our Results:
After we both talked and agreed what we came up was this:
1) was the unit in play before the mishap? yes
2) can you take anything in play and put it in reserve after the first turn? No

We agreed that while the unit was in play, tryed to VOD to somewhere but failed, something needed to happen to the unit as everything on the mishap table is NOT good for the controlling player. Everything from destroyed to delayed is bad for them. Knowing that I DID NOT roll (on the mishap table) a 1-2 ( unit destroyed) or a 3-4 ( misplaced) That we couldent destroy the unit, or have my opponent place my unit where he wanted. Also knowing that you cannot take something that has been in play and then put them in reserve, taking the unit off the board and in reserve would be wrong as well.
SO....
Knowing the above, we decided to keep the unit on the table and it was unable to move, shoot, or assult for that turn. This is very similar to the vehicle dammaged table. Since the unit was NOT destroyed ( roll of 1-2) or misplaced ( roll of 3-4) on the mishap table.
The unit would then, at the begining of my next turn, try to roll a 2+ ( taken from the reserves table page 94 in the warhammer 40k rulebook). If they did, they came out of reserves. if they didnt, they are destroyed as it would have been turn 5.
So I'm interested in all of your opinions as i want to see if we came up with the right call.
Thanks,
E
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 11:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 195
Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

As it says in the codex you have to use the deepstrike rules then those are rules you should have followed.

The Lord and the unit would go into reserves and attempt to deepstrike in again next turn in the case you described. If this happened at the end of the game they would have been counted as destroyed as you mentioned.

It is possible to take something in play and place in reserves if it has the special rules to allow it. Eldar swooping hawks can deepstrike in and then "leap" off the board every turn if you wish.
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 11:50   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcj
REMOVE the unit from the board that this happened to, place them in reserve, and roll for them to come out before turn 5
This would be my interpretation. It states specifically that you put them back in reserve; despite the fact that nothing else in the game would normally allow you to place things back in reserve, that's what it states. Under normal circumstances, a unit may only Deep Strike when it has come in from reserve, but this is not always the case; Deathwing Terminators and Daemons can come in on the first turn (having never strictly been in reserve), and Ork Weirdboys, Space Marine Librarians and Necron Lords with the Veil of Darkness can teleport around the board using Deep Strike. If any of the above had the same happen to them then I'd say the same thing; regardless of when in the game it happened, the unit goes into Reserve and follows the normal rules for that.
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 14:13   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cykosis
As it says in the codex you have to use the deepstrike rules then those are rules you should have followed.

The Lord and the unit would go into reserves and attempt to deepstrike in again next turn in the case you described. If this happened at the end of the game they would have been counted as destroyed as you mentioned.

It is possible to take something in play and place in reserves if it has the special rules to allow it. Eldar swooping hawks can deepstrike in and then "leap" off the board every turn if you wish.
I can understand this concept. If this ever happens again, I'll take my units off and put them into reserve.
Again, its kind of our own fault for being new to the game.
However, there are no special rules to take any of my units off the board while in play and put them into reserve as far as i know ( I'll re-read the the codex and FAQ again) so I hope you can understand why we didnt take them off.
It was never our intentions to not follow the rules, just tried to come up with the most logical outcome for what happened.
Ehh, I ended up losing the game by 18 points anyhow.
Thanks again for all of your opinions.
E
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Old 25 Feb 2009, 14:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 195
Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

You are right; there aren't any units or special rules for anyone else apart from swooping hawks for Eldar as far as I know that let you remove models from the board once they are on.

I understand why you didn't take the models off, and it really isn't that important as long as you have fun and you both are happy with the decision at the time. If you can't agree on an outcome then roll a dice to make the choice for you.

Strange situations and rule interpretations happen all the time in this hobby and what you did was correct. Follow logic keep the game moving and look it up afterwards.

EDIT: spelling.


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Old 26 Feb 2009, 14:46   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Location: USA
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Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

I'd look at it as he mis-teleported and is off the battlefield. His Reserves roll from then on is his attempt to teleport his unit back onto the field of battle.

Crummy ancient tech, never works the way you want it to.
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Old 08 Mar 2009, 15:14   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

i have a noob-type question as well.

in the rules it states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhammer 40000 rulebook, page 28
Assault weapons shoot the number of times indicated-wether you move or not and regardless of range.

Models carrying assalut weapons can fire them in the shooting phase and still assault into close combat in the assault phase
does tis mean that i can move, shoot an assault weapon and assault all in the same turn (this is how i have played it)? it may seem silly, but it has just recently been brought to my attention that it may not be so by a freing at school.
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Old 08 Mar 2009, 16:59   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Austria
Posts: 3,435
Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwills
i have a noob-type question as well.

in the rules it states:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhammer 40000 rulebook, page 28
Assault weapons shoot the number of times indicated-wether you move or not and regardless of range.

Models carrying assalut weapons can fire them in the shooting phase and still assault into close combat in the assault phase
does tis mean that i can move, shoot an assault weapon and assault all in the same turn (this is how i have played it)? it may seem silly, but it has just recently been brought to my attention that it may not be so by a freing at school.
You're absolutely correct; with Assault weapons, you can move, fire, and charge, bot please note 2 restrictions:

1) You CANNOT run if you want to fire a weapon, nor can you charge after running (unless you have fleet of foot).

2) You MUST charge the unit you shot at (which can cause some problems it the opponent removes the models closest to your unit, and the rest of the unit is more than 6" away, or if you kill the whole enemy unit with shooting).

Same thing with pistols, since they are basically "Assault 1".

Note that this is unlike Rapid Fire weapons, which can ALSO shoot twice after moving, but are not allowed to charge afterwards.

Cheers,
-Bone
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Old 08 Mar 2009, 21:12   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 410
Default Re: Weird Noob Question.

Yes you are correct, this makes assault type weapons the most veratile weapons in the game. All normal firing restrictions apply as CmdrBonesaw has already stated, I am just confirming what he said as correct.

Rapid fire weapons are slightly more complicated, you may never assault after firing a rapid fire weapon unless allowed by a special rule such as relentless. Not being able to charge is one of the main reasons GW gave Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines all pistols, so they can fire and then charge in the same turn. With rapid fire you are allowed to remain stationary and get one (1) shot at the maximum range of the weapon or you are allowed to move and get two (2) shots at 12" range. If your target is within 12" range you get two (2) shots regardless of whether or not you have moved in the movement phase. Some people make the mistake of misreading this rule as: one shot at max range or two shots at half range, meaning tau firewarriors would get one shot at 30" and 2 shots at 15". This is not correct, it's always two shots at 12" regardless of the weapons maximum range.

Sorry for the rant, got it out of my system. :P
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