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necrons we will be back rolls with an orb
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 02:42   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

Hey all, playing a game with tau against necrons right now and was wondering, i destroyed all of his necrons, including his lord from a sweeping advance with O'shavah. Now, most of them were killed in shooting from no armor saves, and from O'shavas sword. So the question came up do his guys get back from the resurection orb? He rolled and the lord got up with full wounds, but my problem with that is that if he didnt, and it should all be happening at the same time, most of his guys shouldnt get back up. Thanks for the clarification all!
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 04:32   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

You roll for the lord first, then the rest of the unit. Biggest question is, how the hell did you manage to win a CC against a Lord and a unit of warriors?
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 04:41   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

If the unit dies to a sweeping advance, they do not get a WBB roll. Even if an orb is in the unit.

Sweeping advance is one of the few ways to negate WBB that Necrons have no way to deal with.

The models that died to shooting may attempt a WBB roll if there is a like model or Tomb Spider nearby, the models that died to the sweeping advance, including the Necron lord, may not attempt WBB, no matter what.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 05:25   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

well, O'shava's unit downed about 15 or so warriors in the shooting phase, then charged and O'shava hit with all of his power attacks in the CC phase. His lord only did two, and there werent many warriors left to do anything. So anyway your saying if the lord died in shooting, he would still get back up, then everyone else get back up, but because it was a sweeping advance they dont. Is there any specific literature you would point me to on that? In the rule book it says only specific rules could negate it, and his argument was that the WBB roll is that specific rule. Also how do you normally mark who was killed with double toughness or no armor saves vs. normal save guys because that was a problem too was who got to get up because of the tomb spider near by and who no longer had an orb to res with? Thanks again for your help, necron rules seem like they need updating to me as they are worded strange.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 05:48   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

if a unit is ineligible for a WBB roll, remove it immediately. If it's not, then just lay it on it's side.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 05:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybronco
So anyway your saying if the lord died in shooting, he would still get back up, then everyone else get back up, but because it was a sweeping advance they dont.
Only the models that die to the sweeping advance cannot make the WBB roll. The models that died to shooting attacks, or to cc attacks, would be allowed to make their WBB rolls. The ones that were still standing when the sweeping advance was made would not get a WBB roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybronco
Is there any specific literature you would point me to on that? In the rule book it says only specific rules could negate it, and his argument was that the WBB roll is that specific rule.
It says on page 40 of the 5th edition codex that no invunerable saves or other special rules/saves can save them at that point in the game. That includes WBB. He must have misread the rules, because sweeping advance and death and glory have always negated WBB, with no means of avoiding it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybronco
Also how do you normally mark who was killed with double toughness or no armor saves vs. normal save guys because that was a problem too was who got to get up because of the tomb spider near by and who no longer had an orb to res with? Thanks again for your help, necron rules seem like they need updating to me as they are worded strange.
Their rules are confusing to get used to, however it's not bad once you get all the little things down. Their new codex will be coming out this year.

Anyway, if they are not allowed to get a WBB roll (sweeping advance, double strength shooting attack, power weapon close combat attack, and so on) they are removed at the end of the turn. The models that are able to make a WBB attempt the next turn, be it allowed by resurrection orb or just allowed in general, are just laid on their side until the start of the Necron player's next turn.

If a Necron Lord with a resurrection orb is killed, the orb is still on the table until the Necron lord fails his WBB attempt. This is assuming he is not sweeping advanced, where he would be removed from the table.

If an entire unit dies and there are no like models within 6", or there is not a tomb spider within 12" and another standing like model on the table, they are removed from play with no WBB attempt allowed.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 06:03   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

Thanks again for your help guys, I really appreciate it. That cleared up a lot of stuff for me. The last point im still kind of fuzzy on but i think i get now is the orb. I kill a necron with an ap 1 weapon. He falls down and doesnt leave the table because there is an orb nearby. I then kill the necron lord with a sweeping advance and the orb is gone. That warrior still gets a WBB roll because the orb was there when you initially placed him on his side even though the orb is now gone correct?
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 06:45   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

I don't think thats correct. The orb has to be on the table the same time WBB rolls are done. In your example the lord got killed in the assault phase and is thus not on the table at the beginning of the necron turn. The orb has to be on the table at the beginning of the necron player turn whether or not the lord is alive or laid down.

And WBB is not negated by weapons AP. It is only negated by a close combat weapon that ignores armour saves, or a hit that is double the units toughness.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 07:21   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

Quote:
Originally Posted by skybronco
Thanks again for your help guys, I really appreciate it. That cleared up a lot of stuff for me. The last point im still kind of fuzzy on but i think i get now is the orb. I kill a necron with an ap 1 weapon. He falls down and doesnt leave the table because there is an orb nearby. I then kill the necron lord with a sweeping advance and the orb is gone. That warrior still gets a WBB roll because the orb was there when you initially placed him on his side even though the orb is now gone correct?
Ap 1 weapons don't negate WBB. Also, if you sweeping advance the lord he is removed so the orb would also be removed.

If there were necrons only able to attempt their WBB rolls due to the orbs presence, then they would also be denied WBB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
I don't think thats correct. The orb has to be on the table the same time WBB rolls are done. In your example the lord got killed in the assault phase and is thus not on the table at the beginning of the necron turn. The orb has to be on the table at the beginning of the necron player turn whether or not the lord is alive or laid down.
Yes, the way they played it out was wrong. The lord should have been removed from the table, thus removing the orb.
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Old 05 Feb 2009, 08:08   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: necrons we will be back rolls with an orb

Whats important to remember is that range to the res orb should be taken at the beginning of the necron turn. I know in the FAQ they say its easiest to measure range as soon as the necrons go down and determine whether or not they get their WBB accordingly, but with circumstances such as this when the lord was taken off because of a sweeping advance range needs to be measured when WBB rolls are made. Thus you would see that there is no orb on the board in that case and the necrons would be denied their WBB.
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