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WBB or FNP?
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 08:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default WBB or FNP?

I seen this article before in past articles. But than with 5th edition rules being out I think fnp will actually hurt the necrons now. I have several reasons and go over the difference in 4th, 5th and wwb.

1. Currently WWB will allow you to come back at the beginning of your turn.

pros- Res orb makes this ability nice.
- If you go first it's a good advantage do to the fact assaults where in the middle of the fight next turn the necrons will come back up.
- In both editions wwb doesn't work if hit with instant kill, or melee attacks that ignores saves.


Cons - if you go second you're screwed last turn and it give your opponent an easier chance to phase you out since you can't come back the following turn since it's the last turn.

- Also you can only come back once per your turn. While fnp will work on both players turns.


2. Fnp is it really better.

pros - First off you can come back at an instant and it works on both players turns.
- by 4th rules it works like wwb but occurs more often and happens at the end of the turn
- Doesn't matter if you got last or first since it happens at the end of the turn

cons- Well I really thought there was no cons at first. But by taking fnp you become susceptible to ap 1 and 2 weapons. So example Tau Plasma rifles just became a good anti-necron weapon. Heck all plasma weapons can kill necrons now. Also abilities like sister of battle hitting on ap 1 and etc just became better. So by taking fnp you're also taking a severe weakness. Against nids and orcs it's not a factor. But against Tau, Witch Hunters, Plasma Guard, and other heavy ap2 weapons actually have become a threat to the necrons.


With that hvy con in mind. I think wwb is better than fnp. I used to think fnp would be broke. But now I don't mind the change and embrace it. i play plasma heavy armies so now it's easier for me to kill the necrons.
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 08:15   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

Necrons can't take FNP, and I seriously doubt they will ever change WBB since that is the defining rule of the army.
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 08:53   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

i believe he knows this. but there has been a lot of talk about what the new necron codex will change. one of the theories thrown around was changing wwb to fnp.
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 09:03   #4 (permalink)
Kai
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

I don't see how you can complain that having almost everything in your army with FNP is a disadvantage :sadnshocked:

It might be worse than what you had previously but an entire army with that ability is frikkin amazing. In my opinion Necrons need a slight nerf, and replacing WWB with FNP seems like a good start without completely shafting them. You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me giving your basic troops a potentially infinate number of wounds for a few extra points than a space marine was balanced.

FNP is still a good ability to have on a basic unit. Besides, you don't know what other fun toys they might be giving you to compensate yet
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 18:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

I'm absolutely against FNP for necrons. While both WBB and FNP have their pros and cons from a fluff perspective FNP doesn't make sense for the necrons. FNP represents a berserk fury that is so intense that it can shrug off wounds that would kill a normal warrior. Necrons are by no means a furious army.

WBB is unique in the fact that it takes place at the start of the necron players turn. It gives the opponent the chance to take some satisfaction in taking down 7 warriors only to change his mood a few minutes later by seeing 4 of those warriors get back up.

Almost all of the stories about necrons talk about situations where massed amounts of fire takes down large amounts of warriors and once the enemy breathes a sigh of relief they see that the very same warriors that were destroyed are now rising to their feet once again. Fluff wise and in actual game play this is a huge psychological factor, no matter how good the enemy thinks it is doing there is always the chance that all their efforts were for nothing.

With WBB, we see the warriors fall, we see them die, and then we see them resurrected. With FNP we don't get any of these dynamics, the army would lose a great deal of character and would contradict so much of what has been written about the necrons.
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 18:51   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
FNP represents a berserk fury that is so intense that it can shrug off wounds that would kill a normal warrior.
"Berserk fury" is the first thing that pops in my head when thinking of Plague Marines, too. :

FNP just represents a hard to kill opponent and I think Necrons fit the bill perfectly. You can't have a perfect fluff to tabletop translation, so arguing that WBB should be in because the fluff describes them getting back up is kinda weak. If that were the case then you'd only have five Marines in a SM army.
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 19:42   #7 (permalink)
Kai
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
I'm absolutely against FNP for necrons. While both WBB and FNP have their pros and cons from a fluff perspective FNP doesn't make sense for the necrons. FNP represents a berserk fury that is so intense that it can shrug off wounds that would kill a normal warrior. Necrons are by no means a furious army.
No it doesn't. It just represents an enamy thats very tough to kill. Its also usually reserved for elite units in the majority of armies, not standard troops, so its still a HUGE boon to Necron armies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriel_
WBB is unique in the fact that it takes place at the start of the necron players turn. It gives the opponent the chance to take some satisfaction in taking down 7 warriors only to change his mood a few minutes later by seeing 4 of those warriors get back up.

Almost all of the stories about necrons talk about situations where massed amounts of fire takes down large amounts of warriors and once the enemy breathes a sigh of relief they see that the very same warriors that were destroyed are now rising to their feet once again. Fluff wise and in actual game play this is a huge psychological factor, no matter how good the enemy thinks it is doing there is always the chance that all their efforts were for nothing.

With WBB, we see the warriors fall, we see them die, and then we see them resurrected. With FNP we don't get any of these dynamics, the army would lose a great deal of character and would contradict so much of what has been written about the necrons.
While I respect that it does remove some of the (little) flavor from the Necron list, so did the removal of the power field in second Ed, but that was done in the interest of fairness - as I think this change is. Also, I personally find it very hard to believe anyone chooses to play Necrons for their character, given the army is quintessentially a mindless group of shambling automatons with no personality, drive or ambition other than to kill in the name of their star Gods.

Having said that, I guess it makes me see your point more. When the army is so devoid of character it is kind of a shame to lose what little it has that is represented on the tabletop :-\
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Old 29 Dec 2008, 21:49   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

If that were true then how come Khorne Berzerkers don't have FNP? :P

Anyway, FNP only makes sense because that seems like what they've done for all armies, less army-specific rules and more USRs from the rulebook. WBB functions like super FNP anyway so I can imagine they'd just give the entire army FNP to make things simpler.
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Old 30 Dec 2008, 08:07   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai
Also, I personally find it very hard to believe anyone chooses to play Necrons for their character, given the army is quintessentially a mindless group of shambling automatons with no personality, drive or ambition other than to kill in the name of their star Gods.

Having said that, I guess it makes me see your point more. When the army is so devoid of character it is kind of a shame to lose what little it has that is represented on the tabletop :-\
I was deciding between the dark eldar and the necrons when I learned my fiancee' had killed herself.

Now you know of someone who did choose them for just that reason.



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Originally Posted by Sidstyler
If that were true then how come Khorne Berzerkers don't have FNP? :P
They used to. In fact, They were one of the first to ever have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai
I don't see how you can complain that having almost everything in your army with FNP is a disadvantage :sadnshocked:

It might be worse than what you had previously but an entire army with that ability is frikkin amazing. In my opinion Necrons need a slight nerf, and replacing WWB with FNP seems like a good start without completely shafting them. You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me giving your basic troops a potentially infinate number of wounds for a few extra points than a space marine was balanced.

FNP is still a good ability to have on a basic unit. Besides, you don't know what other fun toys they might be giving you to compensate yet
I can, and many times have debated this, and proven these types of statements wrong. WBB has many weaknesses and ways to nullify it, and we have nowhere near the flexability of unit selection, weapon options, transports, characters, or melee ability of marines. Thus compairing us to Space marines with "a potentially infinate number of wounds"(sic) is extremely inaccurate. Please be careful, you are walking a fine line between debating and flamebaiting with statements like: "You can't sit there with a straight face and tell me...". Currently you are on the debate side. Lets keep it there.
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Old 30 Dec 2008, 09:37   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: WWB or FNP?

FNP combo with VoD, ROrb and Lith is very deadly.
Not only (almost) unstoppable but downright ridiculous.
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