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Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm
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Old 24 Dec 2008, 18:32   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Hey guys. I'm not a Necron player, but I play alot of games versus Necrons.

With respect to kill points, how many kill points is a tombspider worth that has generated a swarm. Is there one point for the swarm he makes and one for himself? Or is it one kill point if you manage to kill both units?
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Old 24 Dec 2008, 18:36   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Well seeing as how the swarms he makes have to stay in coherency with him thereby meaning that they form one squad, it would seem to me that the Tomb Spider + any Scarabs he made would be 1 KP.
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Old 25 Dec 2008, 05:06   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

The Necron 5Th ed FAQ confirms this, but adds a bit more: (paraphrasing) Scarabs created by the spider are not counted for any reason. Only the state of the tomb spider counts for any points earned (victory or kill) Therefore if the spider dies, you get 1 kill point, regardless if there are no, 1, or even a thousand bases of scarabs remaining afterword. (the FAQ only states this about VP, but it is safe to assume that it works for kp as well.)

Note scarab swarms bought as FA choices give KP normally. Just bases created by spiders follow the above ruling.
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Old 25 Dec 2008, 08:50   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Actualy brownknight it's not safe to assume because the same is also said about vehicle gun drones but they count for kill points.

As for the question it self I have no idea. if your gaming club has a forum or just a time when you all come together discusus this question and all the other grey area's this version of 40K has.
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Old 25 Dec 2008, 12:40   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

A vehicle's gun drones are able to go off on their own aren't they?

I think the whole idea of KP is retarded anyways. Whenever I roll Annihiliate I just use VP. It's so much easier.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 05:41   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

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Originally Posted by USAFTACP
A vehicle's gun drones are able to go off on their own aren't they?

I think the whole idea of KP is retarded anyways. Whenever I roll Annihilate I just use VP. It's so much easier.
I did this too. I said "to hell with it" in casual games and attempted to use 4th edition victory points.

But the hole reason I'm trying to get this stuff down is for the RTT--this question stemmed from my other post in the Tyranid section, stemming from my army list post. Annihilate is 2/5 of the possible scenarios.
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Old 26 Dec 2008, 15:16   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Annihilate is 1/3 of the possible scenarios, not 2/5.

If something can act independently of each other even if they are in the same FOC they are worth one KP each. Squads can sometimes have different model types in them, like Orc boys can have a Nob with them. However they all have to act together and are worth one KP. I would think the same would go for the spider and his scarabs. If he could make the scarabs and they could go off on their own it'd be different. However they have to stay with him and maintain coherency. They are part of the same squad, whereas gun drones are a different squad from their vehicle because they can leave the vehicle and move out in front of it.

Where in the rulebook does it even explain kill points? I looked in the index and I can't find it.
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Old 03 Jan 2009, 05:19   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFTACP
A vehicle's gun drones are able to go off on their own aren't they?

I think the whole idea of KP is retarded anyways. Whenever I roll Annihiliate I just use VP. It's so much easier.
yes, we do this too on fungames. makes it easier for us after.

I guess GW should have a comprehensive clear ruling for ALL races on what KPs are.
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Old 03 Jan 2009, 18:05   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodfire
Actualy brownknight it's not safe to assume because the same is also said about vehicle gun drones but they count for kill points.

As for the question it self I have no idea. if your gaming club has a forum or just a time when you all come together discusus this question and all the other grey area's this version of 40K has.
Actually, the gun drone question has never been made clear. Some readings of RAW say that they give a separate kill-point, but a lot of players, including me, think that's a silly way to run things. The house rule that my local gaming group uses is that they don't count for anything but can't contest objectives.

There's a Rogue Trader here at the end of the month, and I've been talking over this issue with the organizer of it. The thinking seems to be that kill points is a broken system and we will use 'Ard Boyz rules for kill points in annihilation missions. That neatly solves the question of devilfish gun drones, but piranha or hammerhead ones are still complicated. For those unfamiliar with it, 'Ard Boyz rules were that kill points were awarded by force org slot and dedicated transports didn't count. HQ slots were worth 3 if killed to the last model or scared off the table, Troops were worth 1, and everything else was worth 2. Also, the errata for the Ard Boyz rules stated that models produced by another model did not count as a separate kill point. So biovore spore mines, tomb spyder scarabs, and such were not counted. You got the kill points if you killed the launcher but not the mines or scarabs, and you got no kill points for scarabs themselves.

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Old 03 Jan 2009, 18:31   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Kill Points: A Tombspider and His Swarm

Where are the rules for KP even listed in the 5th edition rulebook? I looked at the glossary and the missions section but I didn't see anything.
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