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Reinventing the Necrons
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Old 17 Jan 2007, 22:03   #11 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Reinventing the Necrons

Well, a statline like
WS: 2, BS: 2, STR: 4, T: 4, W: 1, I: 4, A: 1, AS: 3+


Why I:4? Necrons are supposed to have (as you said) the "undead" feel, and I:4 is the same as that of a Space Marine. These Necrons would be far better off in close combat then shooting. Gauss is one of the original and unique ideas in the Codex, so it shouldn't be made useless.
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Old 17 Jan 2007, 22:19   #12 (permalink)
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Default Reinventing the Necrons

Quote:
Why I:4? Necrons are supposed to have (as you said) the "undead" feel, and I:4 is the same as that of a Space Marine. These Necrons would be far better off in close combat then shooting. Gauss is one of the original and unique ideas in the Codex, so it shouldn't be made useless.
AH! Sorry, meant I: 1. 1!!!! Klkn!

So sorry...
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Old 17 Jan 2007, 22:22   #13 (permalink)
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Default Reinventing the Necrons

I would go with Initiative 1 but leave the strength 4. Drop armor to 5+ but keep toughness 4. WS and BS could both be 2, and the Gauss Flayer would need to be changed. And of course they would cost very little on their own. The Necron Army would still have good long-ranged weapons in the form of Destroyers, Elite Infantry in the form of Immortals, and Close-combat punch in the form of Pariahs and Wraiths. But their troops would go from being Meq to something in between Meq and Geq in terms of defense, and fairly weak in terms of offense. On the other hand, they would be hard to actually kill and easy to repair or summon, giving the Necron player a lot of options during the game. If you keep Phase Out, it would keep the inherent balance that the Necron army is currently forced to maintain between numbers and elites. You could also give them all Slow and Purposeful and Stubborn.

This is getting a little beyond a fluff debate, though. I do think the Sinister Space Undead is a more characterful way of writing the Necrons than the current Terminator-style robot army it is at the moment.
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Old 17 Jan 2007, 22:30   #14 (permalink)
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Default Reinventing the Necrons

I don't see whats wrong with the Necrons atm.. Sure, they mightn't necessarily bring something different to the table, but isn't it up to the player which army he selects? So why does it matter if two armies have the same thing?

Has anyone ever considered leaving the Necrons alone, and idk, maybe re-inventing the Necrontyr as a playable army that brings something different to the table? I mean, while it would be hard to explain, fluff-wise, I think it would be better than dreaming about altering the Necrons. I like necrons, but I think Necrontyr would be a lot cooler.
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Old 17 Jan 2007, 22:44   #15 (permalink)
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Default Reinventing the Necrons

I mean, while it would be hard to explain, fluff-wise, I think it would be better than dreaming about altering the Necrons.

Replace "hard" with "completley impossible". For starters, Necrontyr had incredibly short lifespans, and their race was wiped out by the C'tan. Even if you changed the fluff so that there were surviviors, these survivors would have to survive in a galaxy being overrun by Warp demons and psykers for 60 million years. Which full - strength Necrontyr might have been able to do (as their tech was the same as the Necrons) but shattered remnants of the Necrotyr on the run would not have been able to.

Besides, what would Necrotyr bring to the table?

Khanaris: I personally think that that's making Necron Warriors too weak. With BS 2, Slow and Purposeful makes very little difference. With WS 2 and a 5+ save, they are useless in close combat. They have very little tactical flexibility (because they are ludicrously slow). Ressurecting them easily is all well and good, but not good enough if they can't actually kill things.

I think dropping their gun strength to 3 and save to 4+ would be far enough in that direction. They aren't hopeless, but are actually capable of causing harm.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 08:27   #16 (permalink)
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Default Reinventing the Necrons

We also need to keep in mind their points cost... and just how "horde" we want them.

If we go by WFB Undead, they are not a typical Horde; poor stats, but they are highly over-costed. This is because, whilst they aren't good at fighting, their special rules make them difficult to remove.

So, if we're thinking along these lines, it should not so much be the individual Necron that is dangerous, rather what those Necrons can do in terms of special abilities. Unfortunately, 40K (especially the current edition) really isn't built to handle complicated rules (GW assumes we're all less intelligent than the Forgeworld Proof-readers). So, we need to compensate a little...


I think we should focus on comparing them to Eldar; these things should be polar-opposites to their ancient enemies... so, based on that, I can support the idea of T4, perhaps a 4+ save, and average fighting stats. I1 I definately agree with.

For WBB... what about just making it a 4+ Invulnerable? Sure, it probably makes them harder to kill overall (especially Immortals), but on the flip side it removes a lot of the frustrating elements of the game; it is seriously irritating when you gun Necrons down, then they get back up. Clumping all of that into just one standard mechanic lessens the frustration.

Alternatively, if an Invulnerable isn't going to work, what about a "Bionics" save? That would keep the rules about not working against Power Weapons, or Instant-Death, and it doesn't add a whole new "beam back" phase to the game as currently happens.


Should that be applied, then the Tomb Spyders could have more of a "Medic" role; say, every Necron unit within 6" automatically passes their first WBB roll each turn.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 08:51   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Reinventing the Necrons

For WBB... what about just making it a 4+ Invulnerable? Sure, it probably makes them harder to kill overall (especially Immortals), but on the flip side it removes a lot of the frustrating elements of the game; it is seriously irritating when you gun Necrons down, then they get back up. Clumping all of that into just one standard mechanic lessens the frustration.

I don't see a need to change WBB. It isn't THAT frustrating having to spend a little bit of time rolling (no more so then bionics would be anyway). It forces both the opponent and the Necron player to think about their tactics. The Necron player has to make sure that his smaller squads are still eligible for it, and the opposing player has to try to find ways to negate it (focus fire, kill Tomb Spyders, etc)

If I made any changes to WBB, I'd make it more reliant on other Necron units. For example, you can only get WBB within range of a Tomb Spyder or Lord with Ressurection Orb. That keeps the undead feel they already have, and makes them more dependant on bigger units (just like Undead).

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Old 18 Jan 2007, 12:12   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Reinventing the Necrons

Quote:
I don't see a need to change WBB. It isn't THAT frustrating having to spend a little bit of time rolling (no more so then bionics would be anyway). It forces both the opponent and the Necron player to think about their tactics.
I DISAGREE! There`s nothing more frustrating than shooting the Klkn out of an Immortal squad, only killing 5 out of ten (because of cover, T5, etc), and then see 4 getting back up.
There`s a saying in my local gaming store: "The most important skill for ANY Necron player is to be good at rolling 4+ on a D6". There`s no tactic behind it.
NOW; if we reduce the WWBB-roll to 6+, as Wargamer suggested, and make the Tomb Spiders let them add +1 to all WWBB-rolls in 6", maybe let the Resurrection Orb repeat WWBB - THEN you have an army based around tactics and proper placement of troops.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:01   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Reinventing the Necrons

Okay... how about this then...

We'll Be Back!
Necrons are highly resilient things, capable of withstanding tremendous amounts of damage beyond what would kill or incapacitate a normal warrior.

All Necrons have a 6+ "We'll be Back!" save, taken after Armour, Cover or Invulnerable Saves have been made. This save does not apply against weapons that are double the target's Toughness, or against close combat attacks that allow no Armour Save.

The "We'll Be Back!" save can be enhanced by applying the following modifiers. Note that it is not possible for a "We'll Be Back" save to ever be increased beyond 4+.
  • If a model with a Ressurrection Orb is within 6" of the squad, add +1 to the roll.
  • If a Tomb Spyder is within 6", and there is another unit of the same type on the board, add +1 to the roll.

Necron Warriors:
[table][tr][td] [/td][td]Cost[/td][td]Ws[/td][td]Bs[/td][td]S[/td][td]T[/td][td]W[/td][td]I[/td][td]A[/td][td]Ld[/td][td]Sv[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Warrior[/td][td]10[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][td]10[/td][td]4+[/td][/tr][/table]
Squad: A squad consists of 10-20 Warriors.
Weapons: Gauss Flayer.

Gauss Flayer = As current rules, except Strength 3.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:03   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Reinventing the Necrons

Much better - unique statline, better WBB makes you think more about your army. Only 2 things - make the ressy orb included in lord, for this change, and change the gauss flayer - it should be a more assault like weapon, 24", 2 shots always, able to strip the target down, but otherwise weak. I don't know how to translate this to 40k though....
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