[Monsieur Monkey]

Hello all!
I just recently bought a drumset, and I was wondering if the drummers of TO (I know you're out there!) could help me with achieving the best possible sound on this kit.
My set is a Ludwig Accent CS.
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/drumkits/accent.php
Basically, I would like tips to make the drums have more of a typical rock sound, if you know what I mean. All I know to do is muffle the bass drum, which I have done, but the snare and toms still sound more.. 'marching band' than I'd like. Help? :P

[Fire_Warrior 032]

First of all, what do you mean when the toms sound too "Marching Band?" Do you mean they sound like quads or something? Cause that would be quite strange.

Basically, it's all about the tuning, and there are a lot of different ways to tune and a lot of reasons behind each way. Put simply, you can do one of three options. Try experimenting with all of them, it REALLY helps, it doesn't take that long, and you'll be able to find a sound you'll like. (When I experiment with tuning, I'll tune my kit for a practice session or two before deciding whether to keep or change it. Don't just hit it once and be like "no," you've gotta give it a shot.)
Anyway, the three most common options:
High batter (top) head, low resonant (bottom) head - Gives you a punchy, fat sound. This is what I currently have and I like it a lot, I mostly play rock and reggae. Most reggae drums are pretty high tuned but I like mine low anyway.
Medium/Medium - While obvious an "in between" sound, this also will give you much more sustain, resonance, and overtones. This may or may not be what you want; most people do not want overtones.
High batter, high resonant - Gives you a crisper, more cutting sound.

But all you can do is experiment, there's only so much I can say.

I'm guessing your snare drum has that "marching band" sound cause it's tuned low - most marching band snares are very deep, so have a lower sound. I'd tune it up a bit - don't be afraid to make it real tight. The first time I tuned my snare it was pretty low and sounded terrible, cause I was used to tuning my toms and didnt wanna make it too tight. Snares can go TIGHT - I know people who tighten the top head ridiculous amounts.

I'm guessing you already know how to tune a drumset - if not, speak up and I can explain, or you can do a google search and probably come up with some results written by more experienced, qualified, and legible people than myself :P

[Monsieur Monkey]

Yes! 1shot, my favorite person! :P

(and by the way, I'm beyond inexperienced, if you can't tell, so bear with me)

Toms: Okay, now I can't experiment much with the toms at the moment cause it's quite late, but I'll try out all of those. It's sounding like option #1 will be the ticket. And, what I mean when they sound 'marching band'. Admittedly I couldn't think of the right word, but basically I mean that it sounds more to me like it's not professional. Hard to explain what I mean, but I guess to me it's like the difference between the bass drum's sound before and after muffling; how it sounds basically more normal after. Am I making any sense?

Snare: It's tuned up fairly high, I suppose I'll try cranking it up more. My issue is it sounds like... sort of that the sound produced is like a tom and the snares on the bottom of it being played separately, as opposed to the solid, sharp 'brap' sound typically produced by snare drums in bands. Meaning it doesn't sound like a snare from the music I listen to haha. Oh, and the snare strainer is as tight as it can go.

As for tuning. All I've been doing is (using the across-the-circle-method thing of course) tightening up both drum heads until they're tight. Is there an intricacy I'm missing?

[Fire_Warrior 032]

Hmm. You might wanna retry tying the snares to the strainer. Unhook the strainer, untie the snares, and redo it to try and get it tighter. Alternatively, it might just be a crappy snare. From what I see, the Ludwig Accent steel snare (is that what you have?) is about $100 on amazon. This is fairly cheap for a snare, so you shouldn't be expecting the best sound quality out of it. Now, you're a new drummer, so this snare should do you fine for a while - I'm not saying you should go out right now and drop $250-$400 on a good snare drum. However, you should keep in mind that you're probably not gonna be getting the best sound out of this thing. I recently bought a Pearl Master's MCX Snare for about $250, and it's a great snare that sounds better than some of the more expensive models in the store ($400+). So price doesn't always exactly equate to the quality, there are some cheaper snares that are great and some expensive snares that are rubbish (I say this because your snare might not be crap, despite being cheap).

And nope, that's all the trick there is to tuning. From there it's just practice and developing an ear. For me, at first, I was overthinking my tuning and spending 30+ minutes per drum. When you get to that point, your ears start playing tricks on you and you're probably gonna end up doing a pretty bad job. What I do now is spend like 5 minutes on each head, doing a quick tune - what's more important is the pitch of the drum, not the greatness of the tune, that'll effect how good the sound is. Each drum has a different pitch that it sounds best at, and that seems to be the most important thing to find.
Mind you, the drums will indoubitably sound terrible with bad tuning. Tuning is still a very important skill. And it seems like one you can't really practice... but you can.

As for the toms:

Studio recordings are almost always edited and mixed for the best quality sound. It is probably impossible to achieve as good a sound live in a basement as you can hear on a professional studio recording. So with that in mind, you're just gonna have to settle.
However, that doesn't mean you have to have a bad, or unproffesional, sound. As I said before, tuning plays a fairly large part in it. You also may want to invest in Moongel Dampening Pads. These are small gel pads that you can stick onto your drum heads, and they help eliminate overtones and give you an overall much better sound. I bought a pack of these (four in a pack, $5 at my local store) and currently have one on mounted tom 1, one on mounted tom 2, and two on my floor tom (since it's bigger and deeper, it needs a little more than one). Some people put them on snares also, but I don't see the need. But that might be an investment you would wanna look into.

One final point - I tend to use Musiciansfriend.com when I look up drumming equipment and things like that. However, when it comes to buying the stuff, go to the store. Not only will they probably have better prices than any online retailer (my privately owned store has great prices), but you'll be able to test whatever it is you're buying in person and compare it to other things in the store, which is a MUST when you're looking at buying new things. However, buying new things should be the last thing on your mind right now (with the exception of moongel) - go play your new kit!

[TheEmperorsJanitor]

I have never heard a tom in real life without a mic and mixer that sounded like it would on record. I've pretty much given up tuning the things, and probably won't give a shit again 'til I make a shitty demo tape and do a shitty live show supporting some shit band with a bunch of people I have nothing in common with musically that I barely know out of desperation and a desire to gain memories I can tart up beyond recognition and later use to construct anecdotes for the purpose of being utilized as ineffectual conversation filler with various acquaintances, but thats just me.

86 word run on sentences FTW.

[Monsieur Monkey]

Okay! After much experimentation I return. :P
I've pretty much gotten the bass drum and snare where I want them, so that's all good, my cymbals are still fine and I picked up a new crash, so it's going pretty great. After messing around, I'm liking the high top and low bottom sound on the toms, but they still sound kinda like bongos... SO I bought some of this fabled Moon Gel stuff. So, do I just kinda stick one of 'em on the head or what?

[Fire_Warrior 032]

Here's basically where you put it:



Take it out of the case, separate them (there should be four different pads, like the one shown above) and you'll notice they're pretty sticky, but not VERY sticky. So just put one onto the tom or snare (as you see above) - towards the edge/rim of the drum, you should NOT be hitting it with your stick. All you have to do is press it onto the drum head - it sticks onto it automatically, and you can always (and very easily) remove them, move them, etc.

For some reason, they don't seem to lose their stickiness, so you can play around with their placement on the drums all you want without having to worry about "ruining" them. You can also wash them in water if they get dirty, no problem.

I have my gels in a bit more towards the center of the drum in this picture - I'd say there's about an inch of space between the moongel and the rim of the drum on my toms. The farther towards the center, the more the moongel is going to muffle the sound and stop the overtones, so you can play around with where you want them.

[Monsieur Monkey]

Alrighty! Got em all on and it helps the sound lots, thanks for all your help man. It's sounding pretty pro now :P

One other question though, any tips on the heel-toe technique for the bass drum pedal? It seems I'm not getting it, although I feel like it may just be an 'experience comes with time' sort of deal in this case.

[Fire_Warrior 032]

I haven't played around with heel-toe too much. I probably should - I'm sure if I don't like it, I can always change back. But to be honest, I'm a little lazy to start learning heel-toe, when right now I'm pretty damn good at the Slide (I only have one pedal, so I have to make it sound like I have two, ya know? ) since that was the most comfortable for me to begin with.

However, I'm sure there are plenty of instructional videos on Youtube - here's a quick Search Result

Glad the tips have been helping you so far Great to have another drummer amongst all these guitarists.

[Monsieur Monkey]

Hah, well I'd be fine learning slide too, in general I just need a technique so I can go faster, cause at the moment I'm just hitting it with my toe haha.

One of the main current reasons is, my band is covering the song Vision of Division by The Strokes;
Album version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E32VkKPcBlE
Drum cover if you want to hear the part (I love this guy btw): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEoo8jmEwow

And basically, aside from the insane tom part during the solo, I can do the song except for the little doubles during the main drum bit -_-
Sooo in any case I need a faster technique, and the videos and tutorials on Youtube and such haven't really helped me and they don't really explain in a way that helps me understand :P

And definitely! Though I have to admit, it's cool how drums, like bass, are one of those instruments that aren't... I don't wanna say overplayed, but it's more rare to find someone who plays it in any case.