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Updating the Lost and the Damned List
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Old 14 Oct 2009, 15:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Greenwood, IN
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Default Updating the Lost and the Damned List

So this is pretty much what it says, what are the possibilities for fielding a new Lost and the Damned. The local gaming group still allows the use of Chapter Approved rule sets that are updated when a new codex comes out. When someone wants to use an old chapter approve, the person has to make an updated list (ie new models, updated rules, and changed points and stats) before that list is approved by the rest of the gaming group. Lately I have been driven to build a Lost and the Damned list, so here are my suggested changes. Before I submit it for approval, I wanted to get the forum's thoughts.

The following is the slightly modified, but mostly original FOC
HQ: 1 Chaos Lord or 1 Chaos Sorcerer, Apostate Cardinal*, Rogue Psyker*, Summoned Greater Daemon**, 0-5 Aspiring Champions**
Elite: Big Mutants, Possessed
Troops: Traitors, Mutants, Gibbering Hordes (use the Nurgling rules) Summoned Daemon Packs**
Dedicated Transports: Rhino, Chimera (both using the new relevant listings)
Fast: Chaos Hounds, Daemonic Beasts, Traitor Recon*** (Sentinel, Rough Riders, Hellhound)
Heavy: Defiler, Chaos Spawn**, Traitor Tank*** (Leman Russ, Basalisk)
*Models are taken from the Witch Hunter's Adversaries based on an old White Dwarf article.
**Models that occupy this place in the FOC, but do not count towards the maximum choices
***For each unit of Traitors, 1 Traitor Recon or Traitor Tank may be purchased

This part of the FOC is similar to the normal allies list as used by the Inquisition armies. Any changes to their rules will be listed next to them.
Chaos Allies
0-1 HQ: Fabius Bile (Genetic Corruption can be purchased for Traitors and Mutants, but not big Mutants)
Daemon Prince (no changes)
Additional Chaos Lord or Chaos Sorcerer
0-1 Elite: Chosen (can take a maximum of 5 models)
Terminators (can take 3-5)
Chaos Dreadnought
Marked Chaos Marines (always count as elite, even if they share a mark with one of the HQs)
0-2 Troops: Chaos Space Marines
Marked Daemons (from Chaos Daemons codex, 0-1 choice, takes up a FOC slot)
0-1 Fast: Chaos Bikers (no changes)
Raptors (no changes)

The following are some general musings as well as suggested changes, such as wargear lists for leader upgrades, since the original LatD list was from when there was more variety than could be listed in a single entry. Point costs shown are suggested and are not from any given source. Any gear without a point cost should be taken from the relevant codex.
Traitors:
One big thing that needs to be taken care of is the Wargear options for the Traitor Agitator. They are simply allowed to take any wargear that an Aspiring Champion can take, but I think that it is much more plausible to give them wargear from the Guard Codex and just some of the Chaos-y options from the AC gear. So my suggested wargear is the following:
Shotgun, Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Power Fist, Plasma Pistol at the cost listed. He may take a 4+ armor save at +5 points, a Personal Icon at +5 points, a combi-weapon and Melta bombs at the cost listed in the Chaos Codex, and a bolter for +3 points.

Mutants:
The Mutant boss is in the same shape as the Traitor Agitator in that he is only given a point total and not a wargear list. So the suggested wargear for him is as follows:
Shotgun at +2 points, Bolt Pistol at +2 points, Power Weapon at +15, Melta Bombs at +5, Bolter at +3 points, Fire Arms at the squad cost.

Chaos Spawn:
The question with Chaos Spawn, is which profile should be used for them. Both of them have a Random Number of attacks, are both Fearless and essentially have the same profile. The LatD model has -1 Wound, -1 LD and a 3+ save . The Chaos Marine Codex are double the cost, but from 1-3 models, and the LatD model are 3-5 models. I lean towards the new ones, just because they are newer, but the Chaos Spawn in the LatD are a Heavy choice, where as the Chaos Marines are a Fast, so they aren't really the same unit, but they are so... This one is a toss up, so any thoughts would be helpful.

Daemon and Heralds
This one is not my idea, so please don't shoot the messenger. As some may have noticed in the Allies list, marked Daemons are listed as a choice from the Chaos Daemon's codex, this is mostly to add some variety into the list. I more agree with the basic daemon troops, but as far as the heralds go, I don't know. At most, I would put in the unnamed Heralds of... as opposed to any of the named heralds such as the Scribes or the Masque. I could see maybe as a show of support from the Chaos Gods, but with the severing ties between mortal and immortal Chaos I just don't know.

Traitor Hellhound and Traitor Russ
Most likely going to keep them as a 0-1 (no squadron) choice, mostly to represent the lack of actual support from any single source, but the question that comes in is which, if any, variants should be allowed? Many of the Leman Russ variants, such as the Execution have been around for millennia, so it is possible for them to be in the hands of traitor regiments, but they most likely would not have access to the parts to repair these weapons. The forces could always represent recently turned forces in which case they would be likely to have such vehicles. So from a basic balance stand point, should the updated codex include any of the Leman Russ or Hellhound Variants, or just keep the basic ones?

I appreciate any help or advice that anyone here can give.
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Old 14 Oct 2009, 20:48   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Updating the Lost and the Damned List

Quote:
Originally Posted by O Vioanoi
Chaos Spawn:
The question with Chaos Spawn, is which profile should be used for them. Both of them have a Random Number of attacks, are both Fearless and essentially have the same profile. The LatD model has -1 Wound, -1 LD and a 3+ save . The Chaos Marine Codex are double the cost, but from 1-3 models, and the LatD model are 3-5 models. I lean towards the new ones, just because they are newer, but the Chaos Spawn in the LatD are a Heavy choice, where as the Chaos Marines are a Fast, so they aren't really the same unit, but they are so... This one is a toss up, so any thoughts would be helpful.
In the Eye of Terror, it is common (according to Fluff from EoT Book) for people to be mutated by the chaos gods granting too many powers and gifts.

IMO you can have both, but make sure the stats are different, maybe give the Fast Attack Spawn fleet?
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Old 14 Oct 2009, 21:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Updating the Lost and the Damned List

I am trying to not mess with the established rules too much, but giving one fleet may be an option. I think the big problem though would be distinguishing Fast Spawn from Heavy Spawn. Another thing that would make me keep from adding 2 types of Chaos Spawn is the physical cost of them.

They cost 30 for 2 spawn, so you are looking at spending 60 for filling in 100 points (3 Heavy Spawn, 1 Fast Spawn). They really are not that great if you only have a single Spawn in a unit and really only get good when you get 3 or more (only with the Heavy Spawn though). They are sort of like Wraithguard, you can have a 10-Spawn unit, but it will cost you upwards of 150 dollars to fill 200 points.

I am leaning towards keeping the old Eye of Terror Spawn, mostly for the fact that they are a Heavy Choice and they are quite lacking in that respect.
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