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how do you start a kroot merc army?
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Old 30 Sep 2007, 00:43   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default how do you start a kroot merc army?

hi all, i am new to 40k (and table top games in general) and currently have around 1300 points of tau models. tau are easily my favorite army, which i have determined from the 4 games i have played with them. however, i recently found out about kroot merc and i am really intruiged. i love regular kroot, and variety a kroot merc army offers sounds awesome to me!

so my questions are these...

how does one go about starting a kroot merc army?

what are the pros/cons of kroot mercs?

can they be used in tournaments?

does a kroot merc army require alot of conversions? if so, are the conversions hard?

do kroot mercs do better in small games or large ones?

do kroot mercs do well in a particular type of game?

thanks in advance!
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Deathrain's are the Jessica Alba of the Crisis Suit world. Beautiful curves (on the missile pods 8)), fantastic moves, can knock you out from a distance, and always make you wish you had more.
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Old 30 Sep 2007, 04:45   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

The easiest way to start a Kroot army? Three boxes of Carnies. $105 american, gives you two sixteen man troop units, one 15 man unit you can do some converting with to make headhunters, and one extra model to make a Master shaper. If you have a decent group of friends you play with (preferably with marine or chaos players) you should be able to requisition a fair number of chainswords that can be easily converted into Eviscerators, an maybe even a few power weapons. Totems are one of the harder pieces to convert. Blood of the stalker is easily done by adding red stripes to the paint job. Veneration Charm can be a simple, congruent mark applied to all associated weapons. Surefoot charms with the small grenade/bell looking bits on the kroot sprue. After that, just spam the carnivore boxes. A sixteen-man unit averages between 180-220 points, depending on the options taken.

What are the dis/advantages? The upside is that the ENTIRE force infiltrates, with the exception of krootox and greater knarlocs. They have a HUGE number of S4 attacks (3 each on the charge for an 8 point model), and can pump out bolter shots like crazy. Because of all the special weapons they can take, they also have some of the best team-leaders in the game when it comes to close-combat (5 power weapon attacks on the charge for +16 points). Additionally, with their sheer numbers they can weigh enemies down with negative combat modifiers. To top it all off, however, there are few-to-no other armies that can get so many first-turn charges, regardless of the points level (BotS + {HNO and Surefoot OR Wings} + KHT = pain). The downside is that nothing has a save better than a 6+ (unless you buy MotFC, or are an HQ), they are only Initiative 3 so against REAL assault forces generally strike last, and since their weapons are AP6 instead of AP5 guardsmen and ExCarap termigaunts will be able to hose them down in shooting. Lack of options for your basic troops means that they often will become more of a hazard than a help, and there are NO dependable, ranged, anti-tank weapons other than Kroot Guns (which cost 25 points a pop if you ignore the cost of the model they come on) or shaper councils with plasma. Get used to seeing tanks blow up and wiping out your units, and to skimmers and monoliths walking all over you.

Can you tourney kroot? It depends on the organizer, but if you bring the rules with you and have a well-designed, good-looking army you should be able to convince them.

Conversions? This is a tough one. Yes, there is a LOT of converting to do, but just like any other army it all depends on how good you want it to look. Whether it's orkifying your O.Hybrids, adding wings or veins to your units, or adding in the special equipment REQUIRED to make them playable, there will be dozens upon dozens of conversions. However, that in and of itself was what drew me to the army. Regardless, with a few exceptions they are not hard, as the kroot model itself lends plenty of bonuses: dozens of free accessories, easily manipulated hand styles (having perfectly symmetrical finger placement is AWESOME to no end) as well as legs and arms, and extra arms/heads means that you can mess around as much as you want. Be carefull with two things, though:

1.) Kroot limbs are slender and have a surprizing amount of embedded detail that is unfortunately right along the mould lines.
2.) Krootox ~MODELS~ suck balls. They are mis-shapen at best, deformed/unusable at worse, the two halves never align properly even WITH considerable filing and greenstuff work, and the points cost is so pathetically over the top it's useless.

Small or Large games? Small games! Small games!!! 2000 and less, preferrably, as this gives you the punch you need without giving the opponent free will to max out on big stuff. Unfortunately, the high maximum unit size and cost means that kroot mercs can easily use a single force org chart, even in 3000-4000 point matches. As well, go for objective based matches like Clense, Recon, and Take&Hold, as kroot all-infiltrating can seize objective access venues, denying the enemy crucial points that will often win the game more than going for a killfest.



Other than that, if you have other specific questions never be afraid to ask: It's always a pleasure to have another beak in the kindred!
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"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 30 Sep 2007, 11:31   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

Another thing: I suggest you download the Codex: Catachans PDF from the GW site as well. It contains rules for jungle fighting, which Kroot Mercenaries simply excel at.
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Old 30 Sep 2007, 14:16   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

hmm, i know nothing of jungle fighting at the moment...

but i have a question...

can kroot mercs do combat patrol? because of my low modle/point count that is the game type i usually end up playing. however, the rules state the no model can have 3 or more wounds. but the kroot merc rules say each squad needs a shaper, which has 3 wounds. so can kroot mercs even do combat patrol? ???


and another question...
my most frequent opponents are tyranids, guards, and marines (in that order). which upgrades are most helpful to combat these opponents? i was thinking about 'fast reflexes' so i could hit the tyranids early after infiltrating,'sixth sense' to make it hard for the numerous IG templates to cath me, and 'ork hybrid' to even the playing field against marines (except of course that i will outnumber him like crazy ;D).

do these upgrades seem plausible against their respective opponents?
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Originally Posted by Rafe
Deathrain's are the Jessica Alba of the Crisis Suit world. Beautiful curves (on the missile pods 8)), fantastic moves, can knock you out from a distance, and always make you wish you had more.
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Old 30 Sep 2007, 18:14   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

Actually, no. What you will REALLY want is Fast reflexes against Marines and guard, (Ork hybrid also works on guard), and nothing against Tyranid. Yes, nothing.

Marines are I4, which means that they will hit before you in close combat (something that marines excell at as it is). Their high leadership and armor also increases the chances that combat will drag on for multiple rounds. Being able to hit simultaneously increases the number of hits you get in, thus making better opportunities to waste them with massed attacks.

The same goes for guard: giving your first-turn assault force I4 means that few to none of the enemy models will get to attack back, and usually with massive negative modifiers to their leadership. Ork hybrid, however, makes lasguns wound on 5's instead of 4's, and prevents autocannons and grenade launchers from insta-killing your shapers.

Tyranids, however, are so fast that FaRef will be inefficient, and can come in so many numbers that they can outshoot and outattack you with ease. The ONLY upgrade of any use against them is ork hybrid, and even then it's a stretch (rending doesn't care about toughness). You DO have the advantage if the enemy plays a nidzilla list, though: Eviscerators get 4 attacks on the charge, headhunter kindreds can wound on a 4+, and Hunter kindreds will pick them off like flies.


As far as combat patrol, just say that your shapers are one-wound models and drop the cost by 14 points.
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"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 30 Sep 2007, 19:58   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

why is there an X for the strength of the kroot hunting rifle?


and i can see why a higher initiative would be the way to go now, but i fail to see how a kroot merc army can take on a gaunt army, for example. i thought tyranids were the undisputed knigs of CC and i thought the only way kroot mercs could take them down was in the woods?
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Originally Posted by Rafe
Deathrain's are the Jessica Alba of the Crisis Suit world. Beautiful curves (on the missile pods 8)), fantastic moves, can knock you out from a distance, and always make you wish you had more.
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Old 01 Oct 2007, 04:00   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

Hunting rifle is a sniper weapon: it's stated in the rules right in the armory. Sniper weapons hit on a 2+ and wound on a 4+ regardless of toughness, causes pinning. Great against necrons destroyers/bike squads, monstrous creatures, and low-leadership infantry blocks.


If you are up against a gaunt army, I'm sad to say that you are seriously ****ed. They WILL out shoot you, they have synapse to make them fearless, they have more bodies than you, have the option of getting a good enough save to ignore your weapon's AP, and if the enemy uses Without Number will keep coming back. They are faster than you in close combat, wound on a 4+, and when they fall back fall back towards synapse rather than board edges. My only advice is to hunker down in cover, fire like mad and pray that your I10 attacks in CC can wipe them out before they hit you. Anything else and you will die like the (carnivorous alien) chickens you are.
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"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 01 Oct 2007, 19:44   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

Hey Yosh,

Damian_Alpha hit it on the head about starting a Kroot list.

Having Kroot integrated into your Tau list really helps you a jump start the army. Three Carnivore boxes will get you enough to fill required Force Organization slots, but in honesty, you'll need 6+ boxes to get near 1500 points. Bodies are also very important in 4th edition, and if you want to stand any chance against an enemy you really can't rely on fancy upgrades and the like.

SEAs do help with points. If you're stretching dollars for 100+ Kroot, the Ork upgrade helps buffer points. Just realize it's not the most effective way to manage a Kroot army. I use the Fast Reflexes SEA myself, majorly because I don't have all my little men built and painted yet, and Marines are pretty prominent in my area.

[hr]

As far as pros and cons go you'll find the list is pretty heavy on the con side. Here's a little list.

Pros:
  • The Kroot kits are plastic, and therefor a pretty easy to convert and screw around with.
  • Shapers can really be great little models in the army, having the ability to take a bunch of different weapons, and options mean you can go nuts, and so every squad leader can potentially be a nice centerpiece for an army. A modeller's dream.
  • Shapers can be pretty nasty in combat (for one turn or so).
  • It's an underdog army and fairly rare so you'll get a great amount of respect for playing it.
  • The Forgeworld models are gorgeous.
Cons
  • Besides the standard bits that come with the box, you'll need to scavenge all the pieces needed to make an effective Shaper. Then again, this isn't so bad if you have a lot of Marine buddies...
  • Forgeworld Models are expensive, and the Imperial Armor 3 is even worse!
  • Hounds squads, which are a great choice, are expensive. Two hounds will run you ten bucks and when you need twenty for a squad? You can have less, but effectiveness will go down.
  • The list has no staying power. In order to win (or simply stay on the board until turn three!) you need to sacrifice whole units, in a very tactical way...
  • 95% of your list has the exact same profile. Your HQ choices are also expensive and generally lackluster.
  • The only ranged anti-armor weapons you have are Meltas, and Kroot Guns. Both cannot deal with anything better then AV12 at range. They are also expensive, embedded in 'poor' units, or simply not tactically viable. Reliable Anti-armor is assault based.
  • Any army sticking together will beat you. Period. Against any MEq army, you will have a turn or two of close combat before your unit is wiped out, or running. If an enemy squad can be supported, then you're done.
  • Morale, while not terrible, will often disappoint you.
  • And the #1 con? The list for all intents and purposes is no longer supported by Games Workshop. There have been rumors of Apocalypse support, but that is neither here nor there. The list is very much stuck in 3rd edition, a handful of the units included are useless (poor Stalkers... ). Don't expect any updates for a while. Our only hope really is Forgeworld. If enough people write and get Knarlocs they might release a list, or more models...maybe...

[hr]

As for being legal? Straight from the horses mouth:
Quote:
Is This List Official?
This list was legal for the 2006 U.S. Grand Tournament, whether it or not it will be in the 2007 tournament season remains to be seen. If you wish to use this list in Rogue Trader or other Tournaments, we recommend you check with the tournament organizers first. Tournament legality aside, these are fun rules and we hope players enjoy using them in games.
My guess is 'noish'. Local tournaments shouldn't have a problem, while the rules are old they're still usable (sans a few units). Big, official, tournaments though? Until the end of the year you should be fine, but with LatD going the way of dodo, I'm waiting for GW to nix the Space Chickens. It doesn't really matter, most the time, Kroot have no chance in hell to be competitive (but it's debatable).

Damian_Alpha is right on about conversions. The list can be as crazy or conservative as you wish. I'm a fan of jungle, stealth-hunter Kroot, and so I'm not big on wings or armor. Other players like to have that stuff, so you see a great spread in the types of armies out there.

Kroot do well in smaller games because they have the numbers, but I've found that higher point games aren't horrible either. You just need to bring a ton of guys. Your FOC might even be maxed. I know at 1850 my HQ & Heavies definitely are. Depending on how much you like Hounds and Trackers your Fast Attack might be Maxed as well.

As for situations, Kroot will fare about the same in every environment unless you're playing on a very wooded board. Gamma and Omega missions are always good for the Kroot, and as long as your player group follows the 25% terrain suggestion, you'll fare about the same in most of your games.

[hr]

Anyways, most of this is an echo. Remember that a Kroot list is a legitimate investment of time and money. The army will be sure to disappoint on a gaming level sometimes, but can really pay off on a Hobby level. Also when you do finally win, it feels better then with any other army . If all else fails, all those extra Kroot can always be used for your Tau army.

It's definitely an experience to play and model the Space Chickens, and I can honestly say that I haven't been as engrossed with an army as much as I've been with them.
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Old 01 Oct 2007, 22:27   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

well i have 19 kroot, 1 shaper, and 8 hounds that a friend gave me when i told him i was starting tau. i really like tau, but i want a little variety every now and then. so i figure i can have a 500 point combat patrol kroot merc army. as i expand my tau, i will undoubtedly gain more kroot (who i think rock in my tau force ;D) so i will just need to convert a couple.

thanks for all the advice guys!!!

just out of curiosity, can kroot actually do ANYTHING against a land raider or monolith? people keep talking about powerfists and such, but i do not yet know how reliable they are at penetrating armor...
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Originally Posted by Rafe
Deathrain's are the Jessica Alba of the Crisis Suit world. Beautiful curves (on the missile pods 8)), fantastic moves, can knock you out from a distance, and always make you wish you had more.
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Old 01 Oct 2007, 23:59   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: how do you start a kroot merc army?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha
Hunting rifle is a sniper weapon: it's stated in the rules right in the armory. Sniper weapons hit on a 2+ and wound on a 4+ regardless of toughness, causes pinning. Great against necrons destroyers/bike squads, monstrous creatures, and low-leadership infantry blocks.
i just got a question... since there is no designated strength on the kroot hunting rifle, can it do anything against armor?
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Deathrain's are the Jessica Alba of the Crisis Suit world. Beautiful curves (on the missile pods 8)), fantastic moves, can knock you out from a distance, and always make you wish you had more.
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