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[Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list
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Old 10 Jul 2007, 23:59   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 25
Default [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

Here's my first official stab at a list. I've always been a Marine player so it was an entirely different way of thinking trying to construct this. I have a specific color scheme in mind based on a real world animal and tried, initially, to base the list around that creature's natural poison defenses, incorporating three Headhunter Kindreds. That failed for the most part once I realized the unit's pretty ineffectual unless you're playing high T armies (Chaos, Nids, ???) so I scrapped the idea altogether and opted for a more balanced list. This is what I came up with. Tear it up, praise my cunning skills, etc. but be honest. Thanks...

Signature Evolutionary Adaptation: Fast Reflexes

+HQ+
Master Shaper (146)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-power weapon/flamer
-frag grenades
-Blood of the Stalker
-Kroothawk Totem
-Mark of the Favored Child

Shaper Council [5] (402)
-Fast Reflexes, Hyperactive Nymune Organ Adaptation
-power weapon/meltagun x3
-Eviscerator x2
-frag grenades x3
-Blood of the Stalker
-Surefoot charm
Kroot Hounds [10]

+TROOPS+
Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (248)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot rifles x19
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (248)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot rifles x19
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Kroot Carnivore Squad [10] (133)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot rifles
Shaper
-Kroot rifle
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

+FAST ATTACK+
Vulture Kindred [20] (348)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-Kroot rifles
-frag grenades
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

+HEAVY SUPPORT+
Hunter Kindred [10] (133)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot hunting rifles
Shaper
-Kroot hunting rifle
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Punji Traps [3] (45)

Punji Traps [3] (45)

TOTAL: 1748
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 00:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

First of all, for the configuration you have set your master shaper into, I'd drop mark of the favored child. He's a non-scoring unit with no better stats than your shaper council (save that he has an end initiative of 5). If you're going to give him the Mark, at least give him an eviscerator and use him to take down tanks. That said, if you are using him against heavy weapons teams, he'll rip them apart ;D. You're still better off with dropping the mark, though.

Second, drop the Blood of the Stalker for your Hunter Kindred. They should NEVER start off that close to your enemy, and you'll have more points to spend.

Lastly, that many punji traps is just rediculous. A single heavy support slot should be all you need. Unless you don't actually have the models to fill 1750, drop one set and stock up on more kroot carnivores.

Glad to see another player joining the kindred. It's a delightful experience, the models are a joy to build/convert, and it's ridiculously exciting to play.
__________________
"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 00:46   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 25
Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha
First of all, for the configuration you have set your master shaper into, I'd drop mark of the favored child. He's a non-scoring unit with no better stats than your shaper council (save that he has an end initiative of 5). If you're going to give him the Mark, at least give him an eviscerator and use him to take down tanks. That said, if you are using him against heavy weapons teams, he'll rip them apart ;D. You're still better off with dropping the mark, though.
I forgot to mention that he'd be attached to the Vulture Kindred. Would that change anything? And why drop the Mark regardless? He's an IC. Wouldn't it be better for him to not be taken out by a power weapon?

Quote:
Second, drop the Blood of the Stalker for your Hunter Kindred. They should NEVER start off that close to your enemy, and you'll have more points to spend.
Good point. I had a mental block re their weapons stats. D'oh!

Quote:
Lastly, that many punji traps is just rediculous. A single heavy support slot should be all you need. Unless you don't actually have the models to fill 1750, drop one set and stock up on more kroot carnivores.
So just the Hunters, then? Why is 6 Traps too many? There are 24 squares to potentially trap on a table. You'd get the difficult terrain pieces and maybe the squares between them, no?

Quote:
Glad to see another player joining the kindred. It's a delightful experience, the models are a joy to build/convert, and it's ridiculously exciting to play.
Thanks. Honestly, I look forward to starting a new army that's not power armored. Don't get me wrong, I love my Marines but there's a dearth of fun and interesting armies in my area and Kroot Mercs fit the bill nicely. I've some nice conversion ideas to present when the time comes...
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 03:37   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 25
Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

Alright. I made a few tweaks based on your suggestions, some hard thinking on my part and some Tacticas I found online. Here's where I ended up...

+HQ+
Master Shaper (124)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-Eviscerator
-Blood of the Stalker
-Kroothawk Totem

Shaper Council [5] (391)
-Fast Reflexes, Hyperactive Nymune Organ Adaptation
-Eviscerator x5
-frag grenades
-Blood of the Stalker
-Surefoot charm
Kroot Hounds [10]

+ELITES+


+TROOPS+
Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (248)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot rifles x19
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (248)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot rifles x19
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (248)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot rifles x19
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

+FAST ATTACK+
Vulture Kindred [10] (208)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-Kroot rifles
-frag grenades
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Vulture Kindred [10] (208)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-Kroot rifles
-frag grenades
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

+HEAVY SUPPORT+
Hunter Kindred [5] (68)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot hunting rifles
Shaper
-Kroot hunting rifle
-auspex

TOTAL: 1743
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 05:34   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

Looks good...except now the shaper council is just rediculous. Honestly, 20 S8 attacks on the charge WILL kill anything, but it's over kill on a small, relatively soft unit (they are leadership nine, but they will take leadership tests like crazy, and if you lose most of your hounds the unit counts as being below half anyway). Besides which, you are paying points on them for an upgrade they can't take advantage of: frag grenades (Eviscerators strike at initiative 1 REGARDLESS of any other modifiers). Here's my suggestion:

1.) You have six eviscerators outside of your shaper council. Give them power weapons and the ranged weapon of your choice, and go hunting (PW + pistols + fleet = no worries about whether to stand and shoot or assault). Take advantage of that powerful initiative boost.

2.) Use the points saved to buy more Hunters. Five will do okay...but ten almost guarantee pinning or significant casualties (They end up shooting better than a full troop squad, and with better range.)



In response to your statements about the master shaper: Independant characters are non-scoring units. You can trick him out all you want, but the master shaper is NOT strong enough to take on 150+ points of enemy units on his own with a 4+ save that cost 25 points. That said, if you drop that one upgrade you can afford three additional kroot, or more options on basic shapers (who's combat statlines are identical to the master shaper's) Really, unless you are using him for anti-tank (where he might be able to dodge that las-cannon or autogun or krak missile shot with the invo on his way from one tank to the next...which is best done with the Ork Flesh upgrade, rather than the initiative upgrade), it's not worth cutting in on your victory points.
__________________
"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 11:00   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 25
Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

On the Master Shaper's previous incarnation, though, I'd intended for him to run with a squad and be able to break off at the moment of assault to go after a vehicle. Again, good points, thanks. However...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damian_Alpha
Besides which, you are paying points on them for an upgrade they can't take advantage of: frag grenades (Eviscerators strike at initiative 1 REGARDLESS of any other modifiers).
I know the Shaper Council won't benefit from the frags but the Hounds would. The Hound/Ox entry states they benefit from the parent unit's rules and adaptations. As such they should be able to benefit from their use. That's important if I'm assaulting into cover. Besides, it's only one point...
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 14:14   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

I hadn't thought of that. I don't know if that actually works, I have always run it as the hound strike at normal initiative and only the Kroot struck at I10....but that could make some of my unit ideas very powerful.
__________________
"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 15:14   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

I've run IC's with frag grenades attached to squads that don't have them and suffered the consequences of that. However, those are two distinct and separate units. Hounds add to the size of the squads and are effectively part of the unit. With the wording of the rule for them Hounds should get the benefit of the Shaper's frag grenades, one would think...

Shaper Councils also inhabit that weird grey area where they're a squad of upgradeable "characters" yet you don't need to buy their upgrades individually for each one to benefit from them. I don't know if that was intended but it's a pretty cost-effective way of getting some cool stuff in the unit. Each Shaper technically has a wargear points limit as per the rules but you never reach it because they're a squad that doesn't separate and one upgrade has an effect on them all...

I hope I didn't come off sounding like some rules lawyer as I try to steer clear of that as much as possible. In fact, I'm usually more about intent and spirit of the game. However, this was just my immediate interpretation upon reading the rules...
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Old 11 Jul 2007, 23:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

Oh, no, you don't sound lawyerish. That does make very simple sense. The wording would make it seem as though, if the entirety of their parent unit benefits from something, so do the hounds.

Really, though, while the unit IS rediculously expensive, having an entire unit of character-type models with full upgrade capacity has it's benefits (Though sometimes I wish that either the master shaper or the shaper council could be taken, rather than forcing the master shaper on.
__________________
"I have exactly one-hundred men under my command counting on ME to lead that charge, you two-bit mechanic. I have five seige tanks, eight APC's, an artillery platform and a light mech that need resupply and repair by dusk. I need remote mines set, trenches dug, and my men fed and rested, or those Marines are going to be using us for toothpicks. Get it done, Fio'vre." Officer Sherwin Jackson, 13th Dal'yth Company, to Fio'vre D'nan

"Feed well, my Bretheren. You are what you eat, and we have devoured the mighty." Master Shaper Korl Muur
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Old 22 Aug 2007, 13:01   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Default Re: [Kroot Mercs] 1750 "Fast Reflexes" list

A hopefully final tweak before construction commences. Accolades and criticisms most welcome...

Signature Evolutionary Adaptation: Fast Reflexes

+HQ+
Master Shaper (139)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-Eviscerator w/Veneration charm
-Blood of the Stalker
-Kroothawk Totem

Shaper Council [5] (364)
-Fast Reflexes, Hyperactive Nymune Organ Adaptation
-4 w/shuriken pistol/power weapon
-1 w/shuriken pistol/Eviscerator
-4 w/frag grenades
-1 w/Blood of the Stalker
-1 w/Surefoot charm
Kroot Hounds [10]

+ELITES+

+TROOPS+
Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (252)
-Fast Reflexes
-19 w/Kroot rifles
Shaper
-power weapon/meltagun
-auspex
-frag grenades
-Blood of the Stalker

Kroot Carnivore Squad [20] (252)
-Fast Reflexes
-19 w/Kroot rifles
Shaper
-power weapon/meltagun
-auspex
-frag grenades
-Blood of the Stalker

Kroot Carnivore Squad [14] (198)
-Fast Reflexes
-13 w/Kroot rifles
Shaper
-power weapon/meltagun
-auspex
-frag grenades
-Blood of the Stalker

+FAST ATTACK+
Vulture Kindred [11] (211)
-Fast Reflexes, Evolutionary Adaptation: Wings
-10 w/Kroot rifles
Shaper
-Eviscerator
-auspex
-Blood of the Stalker

Knarloc Rider Herd [3] (120)
- Hyperactive Nymune Organ Adaptation
-Kroot rifles

+HEAVY SUPPORT+
Hunter Kindred [10] (113)
-Fast Reflexes
-Kroot hunting rifles
Shaper
-auspex

Mounted Great Knarloc Herd [1] (100)
-Rending beak, Hyperactive Nymune Organ Adaptation
-twin-linked Kroot gun

TOTAL: 1749
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