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Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History
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Old 19 Feb 2008, 05:00   #21 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

Quote:
Originally Posted by bretonnian4
Something Id be interested in getting your Opinion on Vash, is where you believe Shrikes Wing fir into the 3rd Company Organisation? I think that they exist as a special group of 9 Veterans who do not belong to the 1st company, but rather to the 3rd Company, as an extra 9 (Making it a company fo 109 SM's) What do you think?
Nothing quite as fancy as all that. In all actuality they are likely just a... creative alteration of a command squad. Each Company has 100 Marines at full strength, 6 Tactical Squads, 2 Assault and 2 Devastator Squads in a Battle Company. Ontop of that you have the Apothecary, Chaplain, Librarian, Captain, Standard Bearer, Champion and any other marines that the Captain keeps around for his command squad. This can include Veterans pending promotion to the 1st Company, marines without another squad to be assigned due to cassualties, Veterans not up to the 1st Company's standards but wasted in a normal squad, and so forth. Shrike's Wing is likely just taking up the place of a more formal command squad, of Veterans not assigned to the 1st Company due to their personal connection to Shrike and their better use under his command.

Really there is a lot of leeway room in the Codex organisation for all kinds of specialists, some Chapters may chose to adapt those loopholes more than others, and some may not find a need to use them at all. But they are there. The Ultramarines accepted them when founding Tyrannic War Veterans for instance. Not a direct contradiction to the codex, but a rather liberal interpretation of it's tenents. That kind of adaptation can also explain the place of Shrike and his Wing.

I hope that answers your question.
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Old 19 Feb 2008, 17:58   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

So following this standard company organization, how are scouts intigrated into an army since they are part of their own (9th?)?

I ask this because Raven Guard seem to use scouts more than typical and this is an army that I would consider building. I just would like to know how that works.
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Old 19 Feb 2008, 18:04   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

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Originally Posted by 77
So following this standard company organization, how are scouts intigrated into an army since they are part of their own (9th?)?

I ask this because Raven Guard seem to use scouts more than typical and this is an army that I would consider building. I just would like to know how that works.
10th Company actually, is the Scout company most of the time and is made up entirely of scouts. Some chapters deploy squads from the 10th to Garrison training facilities and outposts, they can also be deployed on select missions alone, or ahead of a force, or attatched to other company's. The Raven Guard most likely attatch Squads of Scouts to company's and battle groups to be deployed at the disgression of the most senior officer. But organisation wise they would count as support elements from another company.
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Old 19 Feb 2008, 18:48   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

Thanks.

I have always thought that it was a little strange to have all the scouts in one company, but if they are only needed on an occasional basis and if they are technically still training to be a "real" Astartes, it makes sense.
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 09:58   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

Great article . Karma given ;D
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 00:55   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

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Originally Posted by 77
Thanks.
Your welcome.

Quote:
I have always thought that it was a little strange to have all the scouts in one company, but if they are only needed on an occasional basis and if they are technically still training to be a "real" Astartes, it makes sense.
Well the implantation process involes a lot of resources, as does training and arming each Marine, the selection process and transformation process weed out the majority of the unsuitable candidates, but further training and selection is undertaken by most Marine chapters before the final implantation of the Black Carapace and equipment as a Marine. To this end most Space Marine recruits spend up to several years as "Scouts" to further train and weed out those unsuitable to become full marines. Some Chapters however skip this phase or organise differently.

The Space Wolves for instance do not maintain any scouts in the formal sense, instead new recruits are made into full Space Marines once graduating from the training camps, they gain experience fighting in "Blood Claw" packs to learn to curb their agression and control their actions through experience and skill. The Black Templars on the other hand have scouts, but do not maintain a formal scout company. As the Chapter spends most of it's time crusading around the galaxy and in no one local for any length of time, each Crusade or rough Company equivalent maintains it's own recruitment proceedures and Neophytes are appointed as "squires" to a full marine of the Chapter. Rules wise this means that scouts are tacked onto Tactical/Crusader/Initiate squads, and do not form their own units. The Grey Knights on the other hand maintain no recruit units or scouts of any kind, their recruitment and training proceedures are so extreme that only the very best graduate and by that time have earned the status of a Grey Knight fully.

But of course every chapter handles recruitment differently, depending on religious beliefs, the current state of gene-seed and facilities, the resources available such as the recruitment pool and so forth. Not to mention differentiation in doctrine, of which those I cited earlier are only the most extreme. The Raven Guard for instance recruit very slowly and it's much more dangerous than usual, where as other Chapters require a steady influx of recruits, and preferably in suitable numbers, such as the Space Wolves, and the Ultramarines have a near endless supply of initiates in the form of Ultramar's PDF training barracks, of which the top graduates can simply be siphoned to the chapter as needed.

Anyway probably more info than anyone wanted, but there ya go.

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Great article . Karma given ;D
Thanks FT, Cookies are always appreciated. ;D
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 15:28   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

umm, this may sound a bit silly but here goes.

Raven guard are reknowned for stealth strikes. but i was wondering if this is just generally due to shrike in his little adventure using what he could or was it the general law of all of the chapter. i mean, is it just shrikes 3rd that excell in stealth and for example the 2nd use close up shooty or what?
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 18:05   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

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Originally Posted by warriorchris
umm, this may sound a bit silly but here goes.

Raven guard are reknowned for stealth strikes. but i was wondering if this is just generally due to shrike in his little adventure using what he could or was it the general law of all of the chapter. i mean, is it just shrikes 3rd that excell in stealth and for example the 2nd use close up shooty or what?
The article covers this topic nicely if you care to go read it, Shrike is by no means the most notable member of the Raven Guard to have accomplished such a mission, nor was his accomplishment that great in comparison to the actions of the Legion during the Great Crusade under Corax's command, but really I explained this already in the article, please go read it for a fuller explenation of the Raven Guard and stealth tactics.
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 03:38   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

Love it, I know want to play raven guard ;D, it seems like a thinking mans army if you want to play them fluffy but I am used to ambushing and stealth in my previous army. I also like something that can pack a fast punch against my friends devestator heavy salamanders, I just have to use cover and then pop out and rip them apart.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 19:58   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Raven Guard: A Comprehensive History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Reaper
Love it, I know want to play raven guard ;D, it seems like a thinking mans army if you want to play them fluffy but I am used to ambushing and stealth in my previous army. I also like something that can pack a fast punch against my friends devestator heavy salamanders, I just have to use cover and then pop out and rip them apart.
I'm glad you found my article useful, it's always good to know ;D.
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