[Kaffl]

By the way, the title means I gimped them myself. I know Daemonhunters are more than capable of fighting competitively.

Hey, I'm getting back into my old Daemonhunters army (a Puritan, 2,000 point army) and I was looking distastefully at my old Inquisitor Lord. I pondered dropping him in favor of a Grey Knight Hero, but without the models or the money, I'm stuck with what I've got.

Is it worth taking the Land Raider transport? Granted I'm not going to be using it as a transport (or should I?) but for fire support it may be worth it. Also is it worth giving him Familiars? I usually give them to him for the increased number of powers he can use, but some of the powers are counter-productive when used with each other, or just plain useless against non-daemon armies (most people I play have no Daemon models, and when I started playing DH I didn't think about grabbing some for the sake of fairness).

Also, I'm not sure exactly what wargear works well with him. I generally give him a needle pistol and then something dangerous like a Force Weapon or a Daemon Hammer, but that selection doesn't seem all too useful to me, granted he was able to wipe the floor with Abaddon once, and he is just my HQ choice not a character. I'd like feedback on whether it's worth giving him special armour or just forgoing that seeing as his retinue will cause majority armour to drop. I hate retinues sometimes.

On the same topic, what Henchmen are worth taking? I have a healthy assortment of all the henchmen, although I'm a little short-handed on any henchmen except Familiars, of which I have a healthy three.

After that I need to know what to do with his Land Raider transport (I'm almost certain he can use it as just a transport option, although I lost my DH book some time ago). Should I use it as fire support? Should I cart my Inquisitor around in it? Should I even take it???

That brings me to my Stormtroopers. I am fairly disappointed in their overall combat ability. They die quickly and don't dish out much hurt. I'm sure that with the proper heavy weapons and a good Chimera to speed them around they'd do just dandy, but unfortunately I never invested in Transports (I was young and naive, leave me alone). Never saw the use in transports for the good amount of time I was playing Daemonhunters. Is there any good way to use off-the-rack Kasrkin Stormtroopers without transports? Any opinions here would be nice.

And, lastly, my Grey Knights. I love them to pieces, but they're always a big-priority target it seems. Due to small numbers I've taken to using Purgation squads (I got to raid a bitz jar and there was 1 normal GK and something like 3 Psycannons, and a Brother-Captain Sternn model and a single GK Terminator). I can just as easily proxy them to be normal Knights, but is a Purgation Squad worth it while I have one? I've never gotten any real good use out of it, but it's held down the fort more than once, and saved squads from extinction in a few games with all the Psycannon fire. But I'm just wondering if it'd be better to use them as normal Knights, or even as a Teleport squad?

I need some experience to help me answer these questions please!

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

No worries, you have the pieces to make it tick. You just have to put them in the right place, and then it's up to you to break the mold in your mind about certain parts of the game.

Is it worth taking the Land Raider transport?

In my opinion, no. However, if you have lots of vehicles in the list (rhinos, Chimeras and a Land Raider for example) then it can be a helpful vehicle to have. But mind, it's a huge expense that can be lost in one shot, unlike a unit of Knights who require a shot per model. If you could get a Land Raider Crusader, then possibly it would be more worth while. But as it is, it's just a land raider that the Inq can take. And it's not that hot for 250 points. I would avoid it, especially if money is a concern (it's hugely expensive).

Psychic powers in general are not worth it. Inquisitors are toys. They're too easy to build up. You need to remember they're just fancy guardsmen. Don't give them fancy stuff. Just give them hard cold guns. Otherwise, keep 'em bare and cheap. I would avoid all psychic powers unless you know for certain one will be completely helpful (like Sanctuary vs. Chaos; or Scourging vs. Necrons & Eldar). Otherwise, a psychic hood is better often than a psy power, to shut down enemy psy powers. Familiars are nice because they're cheap ablative wounds, not because of their benefits for psychic powers.

Wargear with the Inquisitor and crew is pretty straight foward: use guns. Psycannon and Heavy Bolter is available here. That's a huge hint. Give the Inq a Psycannon, and get Combat Servitor henchmen with Heavy bolters. You now have a unit worth paying points for. Don't bother with building to assault--they're fancy guardsmen and fail at assault more often than not. Focus on being good at shooting, sit back, and spray.

Henchmen are only worth taking when you need what they provide. Familiars and Mystics are perfect, because they're cheap ablative wounds with extra abilities. Warriors are next, and Gun Servitors with Heavy Bolters in particular are good. Everything else is pretty much not worth it in my book, on a Lord level Inq. The Heirophant is great with the elite Inquisitor, but not the Lord. You shouldn't need more than Familiar/Mystic/GunServitor. Acolytes are point sinks, and really not worth it--wounds are better, hence Familiars and Mystics.

If you get the Land Raider, use it for it's lascannons. Tank hunt. Monstrous creature hunt. Otherwise, use it to block LOS and charge lanes from enemy melee and shooting units to your Knights for example. Use it to deliver things. Never ride in it if you can help it. Again, unless you're using lots of vehicles already, I would not bother with it.

Storm Troopers are not great infantry. They're just required unless you use just Grey Knights. Give them Meltaguns and leave them at minimum squad size (or 6 man teams for even numbers). Hide behind things. Don't put a lot of worth into them. They're just there to punch something once real good, then die. They're miserable in assault, don't expect anything else. Just try to get your shots, and hold up something for a turn. That's all they really are. It's perfectly fine to have not wasted money on lots of transports. You pay huge costs in $$ for these things, and they're low points and non-scoring in the game, and blow up fast. If anything, you're wise to not have payed down all the cash for them. Use them near your Knights, support them. Something comes near, throw your Storm Troopers at them--then let the Knights get into position to stormbolter them in the face and then charge them. Stormies are good for `guarding' other units (ie, getting killed for them).

And, lastly, my Grey Knights.

Knights are great. Upgrades are bad. Avoid the upgrades. Just standard knights with storm bolters. That's where the love is. Purgation teams are holy point sinks. Some like them, but I really recommend you not bother wasting your points unless you played pure Knights, and even then, only if you really knew your metagame well enough to do it. Straight up Knights. Using them as fast attack is a great idea. It gives you the option to deep strike, or not. That's fantastic. Again, no gun upgrades. Just straight Knights--they're excellent (good shooting, and retain their melee abilities, when you upgrade that gun, you lose that melee ability).

Cheers,

[Kaffl]

Wow, that all helped a lot!!!

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

In my opinion, no. However, if you have lots of vehicles in the list (rhinos, Chimeras and a Land Raider for example) then it can be a helpful vehicle to have. But mind, it's a huge expense that can be lost in one shot, unlike a unit of Knights who require a shot per model. If you could get a Land Raider Crusader, then possibly it would be more worth while. But as it is, it's just a land raider that the Inq can take. And it's not that hot for 250 points. I would avoid it, especially if money is a concern (it's hugely expensive).

Well I have one already, so not concerned about losing money to it at the time being. The big problem I have is, while that's my only vehicle (d'oh!!!) I really think I'm going to need that Las to blow up vehicles, because my force as it is is definitely not kitted out to fight vehicles. I wish I had more than the LR and a few Meltas and Multi-Meltas scattered about (some will likely be dead before I can use them - such as the melta in my IG command squad I brought along as part of an inducted infantry platoon of Guard).

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

Psychic powers in general are not worth it

Point taken, I'll stay away from them.

[quote auther=MalVeauX]Storm Troopers are not great infantry. Don't put a lot of worth into them. They're just there to punch something once real good, then die.[/quote]

Hmm... Silly me went and bought 2 boxes of them. Well, I guess that'll teach me. Maybe I'll drop some of them, and desperately hope my opponent doesn't notice them sneaking up and sneeze on them before they can punch a hole in a tank.

Many thanks!

[crisis_vyper]

Originally Posted by Kaffl

Wow, that all helped a lot!!!

Well I have one already, so not concerned about losing money to it at the time being. The big problem I have is, while that's my only vehicle (d'oh!!!) I really think I'm going to need that Las to blow up vehicles, because my force as it is is definitely not kitted out to fight vehicles. I wish I had more than the LR and a few Meltas and Multi-Meltas scattered about (some will likely be dead before I can use them - such as the melta in my IG command squad I brought along as part of an inducted infantry platoon of Guard).

Well, if it is the only vehicle, expect it to draw every anti-tank fire towards it. Can you tell us at least how your list looks like? Fro what I can see, your list have alot of short-medium range antitank firepower.

[Pontus]

Can you give us a complete list of what you got and we can better help you with some tactics for it.

[Kaffl]

Yeah, I have a list I used here once upon a time and of course, my photographic memory. Of course, my photographs are just drawings in the sand, so...

HQ's

Inquisitor Lord - I had this guy kitted out in such a way that I think I broke the 100 point wargear limit by something like 50 points. Um, I think I'm going to leave him with a Psycannon and a Psychic Hood this time. I ordinarily used to mount him up in a Land Raider and get him where he could be most deadly and most safe, and watch as 30 or 40 Chaos Termies ripped him to pieces (But he Instagib'd Abaddon!!!)

Elites

Inquisitor - I'm not so sure about this guy now. It may not be so wise given his statline, he's certainly not invincible. Just a gussied-up guardsman really. I traditionally give these the most shooty guns I could find, either that or a nice Needle Pistol to deal with high-toughness baddies. Like I said, I'll probably drop it from my list.

Vindicare Assassin - You can't convince me to lose this guy. He almost never makes his points back, but the psychological effect is FAR more than I thought it could be. Melikes.

Troops

Stormtroopers - Well, a little disappointing really. I have no transports to support them, and really without the ability to move about without getting all shot up they become useless agaist most armies. MEQs tear them up, assault troops tear them up, and anything with decent range tears them up. Basically I'm stuck to fighting Guard and LaTD Traitors with these, and well... Soon just guard. I can give them some nice AV though, and those Grenade Launchers have proven really useful too.

Grey Knights - Well, not sure exactly where to put these. Sometimes I use them as troops, other times as fast attack and, on occasion, as a purgation squad. They're decent on paper, but mine tend to fall long before they reach enemy lines. Either that or they'll reach there far too late.

Inducted Guard Platoon - Well, I thought these would be an interesting twist. IGuard has always fascinated me. I have only one platoon of them, and even then only 2 squads and the command squad, the bare minimums. Ah well. Not sure if these are even worth taking, but I'd like to if it turns out they're a plausible choice.

Fast Attack

Well, only if I use my Knights as such... That's my only choice without more Induction.

Heavy Support

If I use a Purgation squad, there ya go.

Orbital Strike - Yeah, I do love me some Orbital Strike. That's right, Chaos Havocs, get the hell outta that building.

Um... That's what I've got. Closer to 1,500 points in all actuality. I'm working out a good list for 2,000 while I'm typing, but if I find I run out of models in the meantime I'll drop to 1,500 and post it here. Hopefully you all can help me!

[MalVeauX]

Kaffl,

Are you open to using inducted allies and no Knights? Or is it mainly a platform to use Grey Knights for you?

Overall, I would get more Knights in the list, unless you wanted to go a different route without Knights (ie, inducted space marines, to get Marine troops and access to the best fast attack you can get).

And finally, have you considered playing Witch Hunters instead? You're using an army that can literally be used in the Witch Hunters (you can even keep your Knights). If you switched codices of your parent list, you get access to real heavy support--the Exorcist. And you keep access to literally everything else (except the Purgation squad, but frankly, that's a blessing to lose...).

You could do something like:

WH parent list with DH allies:

HQ1 - WH Inq Lord (guns, guns, guns)
HQ2 - GK Hero of your choice? Just for fun? Not necessary of course.
Elite1 - Vindy Assassin. Cause you like him.
Troop1 - Stormies, with guns.
Troop2 - Stormies, with guns.
Troop3 - Grey Knights (lotta storm bolters)
Fast1 - Grey Knights (lotta storm bolters, deep strike)
Heavy1 - Exorcist
Heavy2 - Exorcist

... That's barely 1200 points (without the Hero). So plenty of room to work around as a core `template' if you will. You can still induct Guard to get more bodies and a Leman Russ (booya!). You can still get more Knights. You could get some of the nasty elites (like Arco Flaggs). Lots of options to tinker with at that point. But you'll have plenty of AT options and tanks way better than Land Raiders--you get Exorcists for way cheaper, which are... well, frankly way better.

Cheers,

[Kaffl]

That would be great, except that I'm all out of money to buy models. I have just enough money to get the Empire Flagellants coming out this saturday, after that I'll be broke. In other words, I have no Exorcists and no money to buy Exorcists. I could switch to the Witch Hunters, if nothing else I think my list may give me some Faith Points to kick around. On the other hand, nothing in that list actually generates those, does it? Hmmmm...

[Pontus]

Maybe the Landraider can be useful as armour for a shooty inquisitor with retinue. Lord with psycannon and three warriors with melta and/or plasma + some cheap models for extra wounds. Three extra familiars or cheap acolytes or something let's you keep the majority save of 4+.
Then drive them up close in the Land raider, placing the raider as cover and shooting the crap out of one squad. Then get in and drive on. In the raider only some guns can hurt you so you need to take those out early. For this use your assassin of course aswell as deepstriking units if you get them in early.

A platoon of guard with three heavy weapons can be quite useful for covering fire. High strength is good to take out enemy tanks and such.

And if you have rhinos small units of storm troopers with two special weapons can be used to support your raider.

Oh.. and if you buy your grey knights as fast attack you still have the choice to place them on the table when you deploy and then you can save them for later in the deployment and place them better.
Instead of purgation squads you can try mini one ie a normal squad of fiver or six knights with two psycannons. Again as fast attack you get to place them last.

If you don't have any rhinos for your storm troopers ask around and see if you could buy some of a friend or check out ebay. Even if they are in bad shape you can strip the paint, slap on some extra armour and paint them battle damaged. Second hand rhinos can be quite cheap.

[Kaffl]

Actually I just learned I can take a GK Hero without a retinue... GK Land Raider!!!

And after Flagellants I may invest in a nice Rhino or something. Assuming I still want to get Flagellants this weekend. I want to get my Fantasy army in game-winning shape. I don't know... I'll think my way through it.

I have plenty to think about with this army I guess.