[shortgoth]

HQ:

Canoness w/Jump Pack, Cloak of St. Aspira, Eviscerator, Inferno Pistol

Canoness w/Jump Pack, Cloak of St. Aspira, Eviscerator, Bolt Pistol

I wouldn't usually take any shooting on the Canoness, but this way it wastes a few extra points/gives away more VPs when they get pinata'd. Should make the list more acceptable to the organisers and opponetns, although I'm still looking at at least a -1 comp for taking two Canoness. As usual their job is to take out enemy tanks, take on MCs and enemy HQs and then die to replace the Faith they've used if neccessary

Elite:

Inquisitor w/Bolt Pistol and CC Weapon, retinue of 3xGun Servitors w/Heavy Bolters

I'm hoping to avoid the -1 I was given for the lone gunman approach in my other list, this way he represents 97 free VPs to my opponent for a single round of marine/tau/etc rapid-firing rather than a mere 22. Model-wise I'm waiting to hear back from the Organiser but I'd like to use the Necromunda Enforcer models here (Inqui=Judge=Enforcer Champ, Enforcers w/H. Stubber as Servitors w/H. BOlters). Combination of this and the Arbites taken as troops gives a more cohesive force, I love the models, and their role is to get a few shots off with the HBs before getting shot up/torn apart in CC

Callidus Assassin

I'm gonna get a -3 to comp for taking any assassin so I may as well take the best one. She's earmarked for her standard role at taking out enemy support units or weak mainline units

Troops:

16 Sisters w/Bolters including VSS w/Bolter and Book of St. Lucius x3

Three large footslogging Sisters. No special weapons and no Eviscerators. The former because I rarely take them anyway (alhough meltas and flamers can come in handy at times, this way they stay slightly cheaper and are still perfectly capable), the latter because it's a guarenteed -1 or -2 for my comp, wheras Marines are allowed powerfists in every squad* :

5 Arbites w/3 Shotguns, 2 plasma guns

I often take ISTs/Arbites in small units for several reasons: A) they're cheap and therefore make excellent speedbumps. B) They provide a bit of plasma gunnery. C) Due to the plasma, an oppopnent will often shoot at them rathr than my Sisters squads which is certainly agreeable to me. D) They provide another small scoring unit.

Heavy Support:

8 Retributors w/4 HBs, 3 Bolters, VSS w/Bolter and Book.

A litte long-range anti-infantry squad. My original list didn't have these as I often find a 6-girl Seraphim unit far more efecive for the points but by taking these Im hoping to avoid the comp docking. Plus they can come in handy of course, I just prefer Seras

Fast Attack:

8 Seraphim w/5xTwin BPs, 2xTwin Flamers, VSS w/BP and Eviscerator

Standard infantry hunting Sera unit with enough numbers to get both DG and SotM as needed, can accept a few losses in combat, and give another couple Evis. attacks for cracking open Tanks.

1500pts exactly.

-----------------------

500 pts Additional force (used for 2 of the games to take them up to 2000pts)

Troops:

16 Sisters w/Bolters including VSS w/Bolter and Book of St. Lucius

Another reasonably sized squad. Still no upgrades whatsoever since I don't use special guns often and I don't want to put too many Eviscerators in the list for comp purposes.

6 Arbites w/4xShotguns, 2xPlasma Guns

Again, adds a sacrificial unit/couple plasma shots/small scoring unit to the army and uses up the 6th Troops slot

8 Seraphim w/5xTwin BPs, 2xTwin Flamers, VSS w/BP and Eviscerator

And again, and identical unit to the previous one used for much the same purposes

-------------------------

Now the fact is that the units do look a little copy-n-paste-ish but that's because it's the units I like using. I could switch the Sisters to have 14 in one unit, 16 in another, and 18 in the third, but that's just silly. I've already been informed that any Assassin will guarantee -3 comp and 2 HQs is automatic -1, possibly even -2.

I've also been told that the only way I could possibly get max comp for a Witch Hunters army would be a list along the lines of: 1 Inqui Lord w/massive pointsink retinue, 1 Palatine (possibly allowable but it might still get -1), 1 priest, 1 unit Repentia, 1 unit Celestians, 1 unit Arco flagellants, a 2 or 3 Sisters units (all with different upgrades), a couple IST/Arbite units (with no upgrades), 1 Exorcist, a couple Penitant Engines, a Dominions unit, 1 of my troops in a transport, and a max of 1 Seraphim unit. And absolutely no Assassins.

So needless to say, I won't be getting max comp. I don't even own half of those models and truth be told, there will be a fair number of people at the tourney with cheeselists that are willing to take the comp hit so I need my list to have some teeth.

Anyway, the absolute restrictions are:

1500pt Main Force. 500pt Reserve (which must be a seperate entity, may not buy upgrades for existing choices with these extra 500pts) to be used in 2 of the games. Max of 150 infantry models. Max of 10 Vehicles/MCs. Maximum Seer council is a mere 15 models. May only use a single Force Org chart including the reserves. No chapter approvied lists or units (i.e. Armoured Companies, Feral Orks, Zealots for Witch Hunters and so on). No Forgeworld Rules (although Forgeworld models may be used to represent standard Codex units). 5 Games in total (1 of each of the standard missions) - 2 using Alpha rules with VPs, 1 using Gamma Rules, 2 using Omega Rules.

Bearing the above in mind, any comments/suggestions for the list?

As is, I'm wanting to use the Enforcers models to represent a Judge and his team discovering a heretical group/rogue psyker/cult/etc and pleading for the Ordo Hereticus for assistance, with the resulting two nearest missions* coming directly to the planet to purge the heretics. Dunno if you've ever seen the Necromunda Enforcer models but they are fantastic, an excellent update of the classic Arbites models. The list itself gives me a reasonable number of powered armoured girls to cover the battlefield and provide support to each other, the Canoness/Seraphim can alleviate the lack of long-range firepower somewhat by being manouverable and adaptive to most situations. But I'm open to suggestions, I have a few more Arbites, a load of ISTs, some more girls, and various Inquisitors and retinue models and have 'till May to get the final list in so plenty of painting time. One thing I will say is: Absolutely no vehicles. I really don't want to asemble and paint tanks and t'be honest I have no experience using them in the current rules (footslogging Witch Hunters are the only army I've had since 2nd Ed/Dark Millenium, I'd quit playing/sold my armies shortly before 3rd ed was released and have only been playing 4th ed for 6 months or so) and don't have enough time to get enough games in to get the use of them down pat.

[MalVeauX]

Shortgoth,

Personally, I would say that you'd be better off finding another group of players. There's a reason WH and DH armies aren't topping the charts at tourneys, and it's behavior like this that keeps players from playing them. They whine, they moan, they gripe, etc, if something can "win" against them that isn't supposed to be able to win (such as an Eldar or Tyranid force). Witch Hunters are nothing new, and the Sisters have been around for a very, very long time. Sisters were kind of beardy in a way back in 2nd edition with some of their crazy abilities (and smaller squad sizes in troops!); Now, they're balanced and nerfed quite a bit compared to that, yet they're heralded as cheese?

1 - Twin Cannoness is beardy; no doubt about that. So if they complain here, it's justified.
2 - Minimized Inquisitors just to afford assassins are also pretty cheesy; so not a big deal either.
3 - The assassin is not cheesy; they're just miffed because they know something is going to hurt.
4 - Troops are troops; denying them upgrades because people whine about eviscerators is a joke.
5 - The min/maxed Arbites are cheesier than the assassin is. They didn't comment on that?
6 - No one complains about the eviscerator in the seraphim but they complain about 6 inch foot sloggers?

... Honestly, they all just have their eyes on the "it will hurt me!" things in the WH list, instead of actually looking at composition. That's silly. It's not fair and those people should not be running a tournament where they can judge people on their biased accounts. I just wouldn't bother with those chaps. I would dock them all for their min/maxed troops and souped up power-gaming lists. It just doesn't make sense at all.

Anyhow, let's look at your list:

HQ1 - She's a beast.

HQ2 - Beast number 2. I would drop her in favor of a scoring unit. Your army is packed will non-scoring units at the moment and it may be better for you to simply have more mobile sisters.

Elite1 - I wouldn't do this. I would drop down to 1 heavy bolter, purchase the liber heresius, and then purchase cheap penitents.

Inquisitor
-BoltPistol/CCW
-Liber Heresius
GunServitor; Heavy Bolter
Penitents x 3
Familiar x 1

Parked in cover; scoring unit down to 2 models. The small heavy bolter actually deals a great deal of damage and the Inquisitor offers Heresius aid for choosing the better deployment.

Elite2 - Callidus is glorious. Assassins have been part of Imperial armies since Codex Assassins. I see no reason why these organizers can dock people points. These assassins are in our codex, they are 0-1 in our codex, not in some chapter approved, not an ally, etc. They are codex units--we should be able to have one if we wish without the whining players boohooing when their devastators get torn up. Keep her. Make them pay. She works double with her Whisper ability and of course, her ability to trash something on turn 3...

Troop1 - Solid. Book wielding bolter mania is great! I'd still purchase Eviscerators. If marines can buy power fists, for cheaper, which are better, then we can buy an eviscerator for a massive squad of 16 girls. That's not cheesy at all---that's power-armored players who whine about not getting an armor save; pure & simple. Eviscerators are not just combat tools for beating marines--they're can openers for anti-tank, something that Witch Hunters lack. If they refuse to accept the necessity of the ONE weapon choice we have here other than a normal power weapon, then they need to grow up.

Troop2 ~ 3 - Same.

Troop4 - Min/Maxed Arbites... I would take no less than 6 Troopers with 2 special weapons. Then it's acceptable. No sense in min/maxing your plasma just like those other players that whine about you; they obviously see nothing wrong with min/maxing in terms of composition.... weird. Don't be one of them.

Heavy1 - Beautiful! However, do you ever use this book? Most retributors tend to stand alone in the rear away from other units, so their book doesn't tend to get used. But otherwise, faith is faith.

Fast1 - Solid; they don't whine about this? Death on jump packs? Why don't they whine here? It just makes no sense how they can't keep a standard.

--- You should get a bonus of +10 to comp just for not having an Exorcist or three, like they'll have their super units lined up as if there was no alternative.

Cheers and best of luck to you!

[shortgoth]

1 - Twin Cannoness is beardy; no doubt about that. So if they complain here, it's justified.

I can't really argue that one of course, it's as plain as day, although I would disagree with those people that claim a pair of Canoness is equal on a power level to a tooled up DP+Greater Daemon or triple Wraithlords (which are comparisons that have been made). It's the nastiest part of the list but on a scale of 1-10 I'd still only put it as an 8.

2 - Minimized Inquisitors just to afford assassins are also pretty cheesy; so not a big deal either.

True but OTOH Inquisitors are roleplaying characters inserted into a wargame. They're ineffective and easily killed so I can't say that pumping ~100pts into them as they would like me to makes sense to me personally. Truth be told, it's ont the Inquisitor they whine about, it's the fact that an Inquisitor allows me to take an Assassin.

3 - The assassin is not cheesy; they're just miffed because they know something is going to hurt.

Total agreement here - the Callidus is an equal-opportunity killer and useful vs any army to a greater or lesser extent. I'd accept a -1 due to my taking the absolute best Assassin, perhaps, but a -3 for taking any Assassin pretty much forces players to take the most effective one rather than taking the situation-dependant Vindicare or Culexus if they want an Assassin. If you're gonna get dinged for it either way, why take a lesser choice?

HQ2 - Beast number 2. I would drop her in favor of a scoring unit. Your army is packed will non-scoring units at the moment and it may be better for you to simply have more mobile sisters.

Dropping her and an Arbites squad would indeed get me a decently sized squad methinks. The question is, a squad of what? Celestians spring to mind. Or I could use the points to beef up the existing units of Arbites so they don't look so min-maxy, or add some Eviscerators to squads. I'll have to have a play around. The main thing that worries me is losing the +2(4) Faith, one of the reasons I prefer twin Canoness in 1500+ points is to squeeze more faith in. Swapping her for Celestians or similar will leave me with Faith rather than 9. What do you think?

5 - The min/maxed Arbites are cheesier than the assassin is. They didn't comment on that?

They commented, but didn't take comp points off for it. Far more concerned about the Eviscerators, lack of flamers and meltas in my squads, the Inqui, the Canoness', and the lack of Repentia, Penitants, etc.

6 - No one complains about the eviscerator in the seraphim but they complain about 6 inch foot sloggers?

Of course they do. The logic is as follows: The Seraphim are a small unit and worth less points whereas the Sisters are the main battle line and those 3 (4 in 2000pts) units altogether are worth far more points than the Sera. This means a smart opponent will know he needs to remove those Sisters. Since the most effective way to remove those 3 Sisters squads is in CC, they don't want a squad fighting back. If there are no Eviscerators in the Sisters units, they can be engaged in combat at whim whereas if they have the large chainsaws, opposing HQs and Elite combat units might get hurt.

... Honestly, they all just have their eyes on the "it will hurt me!" things in the WH list, instead of actually looking at composition.

This is exactly what I pointed out, somewhat vehemently.

They see only the potential damage output, and not the weaknesses of such a list. For example in the first list I had not a single weapon with a range greater than 24" (no HB Rets or Servitors), my only tank-busting was (and still is) the Seraphim/Canoness, who have an effective range of 18" and must be Faithed to take out AV14.

They see large units of power-armoured Sisters with an untargetable Eviscerator which means their 8-man assault squad will get whittled down/killed through attrition, without seeing the low number of scoring units or the fact that by engaging said Sisters units in CC they take out 75% of the total firepower and will likely reduce said few scoring units to non-scoring status.

They see admittedly min-maxed Arbites/ISTs with a potential or 4 or 5 MEq kills per turn of shooting (assuming rapid-firing and above-average dice rolls) without considering that the small size combined with T3 and Carapace armour means they lose any firefight they engage in, again removing one of the few scoring units.

They see a 2+ invulnerable save and high strength power weapon attacks and forget the fact that 80% or the time it won't be invulnerable and it's on a t3 model.

They se that I'm unwilling to buy 20-point models that die before seeing combat 99% of the time and even if they make it into combat they get slaughtered due to 1 attack at I1 anyway.

They see my lack of easily-popped transports and medium-AV tanks as deliberately making their lascannons/melta bombs next to useless without considering it means I have very little manouverability and no long-range anti-tank or anti-heavy-infantry.

They see my refusal to take AV 11 open-topped walkers as an insult - after all, why should I refuse to take excellent lascannon/missile launcher/assault cannon/Railgun fodder?

The single biggest disagreement overall with the list I posted was that it had large numbers of power-armoured troops that can win shoot-outs and can hold their own in combat combined along with a handful of (non-scoring, I have to point out) models that can be seriously killy. By not taking Tanks I make all the AT redundant. By not taking Repentia or 6-girl Celestians/Dominions units I leave very few units that can be killed in a single round of firing. By not spending 250+ points on single-unit HQs (Inq. Lords or Canoness w/Celestial Retinues) and instead taking stripped-down versions they decide that it's unfair not to have a massive point-sink that their equivalent HQ can take down every single time and instead give away as few free VPs as possible.

Anyway, on to the list:

Elite1 - I wouldn't do this. I would drop down to 1 heavy bolter, purchase the liber heresius, and then purchase cheap penitents.

That squad does look interesting, and probably will attract far less attention to boot. I'm not too experienced with the actual retinues as t'be honest I tend to use points to get more bodies into a list (which is the #1 priority for footsloggers after all).

Total agreement with the troop choices in theory but I'm still not sure about the Evis. VSS'. I agree with your points of course but I often do run lists without Evis-armed VS to save on points (again, going for more bodies instead)...of course, having the largest and most important squads defenseless in CC is not fun.

As for the Arbites - there was a lesser complaint about taking plasma in the squads, but nowhere near as big a complaint as the Eviscerators. Seems strange to me too.

Heavy1 - Beautiful! However, do you ever use this book?

In England, we allow the VSS to use the book on her own unit. A somewhat beardy interpretation of the written rules but, you know, this is England.

Fast1 - Solid; they don't whine about this?

Not the one unit, no. They did whine about my having this unit and a unit of 6 Seras w/2 flamer girls (no Eviscerator) at 1500. Why taking a smaller unit without the tank-cracker/CC MEq-killer pushes the composition over the edge, I'm not sure.

New List:

HQ:

Canoness w/Jump Pack, Cloak, Evis., BP

Elite:

Inqui w/Liber Heresius, BP & CCW, Gun Servitor w/HB, 3xPenitants, 1xFamiliar
Callidus Assassin
10 Celestians w/2xMeltaguns, VSS w/Eviscerator

Troops:

2x14 Sisters w/VSS w/Book of St. Lucius and Eviscerator
16 Sisters w/VSS w/Bookand Bolter

Heavy:

8 Rets w/4 HBs, VSS w/Book and Bolter

Fast:

8 Seraphim w/2xTwin Hand Flamers, VSS w/Eviscerator and BP.

1498pts. Still not many scoring units through at this level - but the only way to get more is to drop numbers in Sisters (or drop the Celestians) and take the Arbites/ISTs.

Comments?

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

I see what you mean; sounds like those guys just won't budge and will sit on their little pouting stools until they get an army that says "you can win" at the top so that they'll bother playing without first making you feel lame by having a "power gamer" army. Yet.. they all have their power gamer marine armies regardless. Pathetic bunch of rotters I'd say.

Anyhow - I hope you crush them; let them think Sisters are power-gameable like their marines. What a laugh!

New List:

HQ1 - Solid.

Elite1 - Inquisitor looks good; cheap and very useful; worth his points.

Elite2 - Callidus is perfection. Let them riot.

Elite3 - Celestians... well, first of all, you cannot have 2 multi-meltas and multi-meltas are not a good choice anyways; heavy1 is a bad thing in a sister force that needs to move. Overall, Celestians are not worth their weight compared to normal sisters. The extra points may seem little, but every point counts in the end. Also, this is 3 full elites in terms of composition, and it makes the list overall top heavy enough. I'd move these girls to Troops and keep the Eviscerator and book.

Troop1 & 2 - Perfection. Let them whine about the Eviscerators. Balanced sisters use these weapons; they need them; if your committee cannot accept that Evscierators are part of our AT system as well as combat resolve system, then they need to honestly stop being judges. Eviscerators are fluffy, they're great AT support, they kill anything in combat, not just their precious marines. If they can't stand it, tell them to drop their power fists if you have to drop eviscerators in terms of comp points.

Troop3 - Another solid unit. Not all troops need the Eviscerator, but having a few is great.

Troop4 - I'd move those Celestians here; then filter points perhaps around to more sisters in the first two units.

Fast1 - Solid of course.

Heavy1 - Solid.

--- If they want to see "X" in your army for comp; tell them to want in one hand... Sisters are Sisters; Penitents and Repentia are not Sisters. They're Witch Hunters. We have sister oriented units in every force slot available to us--it's that way for a reason; so we can play Sisters. If they only want to see Witch Hunter armies, then they need to get off their high horses. Sisters have been around a long time; this is our codex. They should take it up with deaf ears at GW if they have a problem with our force organizational chart. After all, Sisters are just a bunch of power gamers right? Pfft.

As for options - If you can move points, the Storm Trooper units are nice to have, but I think it may be better overall just to have more sisters. Might as well keep them nearly pure for theme. It looks good. If someone has a problem with it, then look at their army and dock them for their rotten compositions.

Personally - I'd tell you to forget even thinking about these comp points. Win or lose point wise, if you beat his army, he will not forget that. You can sleep at night knowing you got negative points, but he can't sleep knowing a bunch of girls whooped him.

Cheers!

[shortgoth]

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

Elite3 - Celestians... well, first of all, you cannot have 2 multi-meltas and multi-meltas are not a good choice anyways; heavy1 is a bad thing in a sister force that needs to move. Overall, Celestians are not worth their weight compared to normal sisters. The extra points may seem little, but every point counts in the end. Also, this is 3 full elites in terms of composition, and it makes the list overall top heavy enough. I'd move these girls to Troops and keep the Eviscerator and book.

Sorry mate, that's a typo - should be 2xMelta Guns, I'll correct it. And am definitely thinking of using more ordinary Sisters, I'm just thinking along the lines of they specifically complained about my not using Elite Sisters. Of course, their thinking was probably removing the Inqui+Assasin to make room but there's no chance of that.

Of course, you do realise they'll dock a comp point for the Book of Deployment Zones? It is after all a toy I can have that they can't

[MalVeauX]

I think they're grasping at straws because they're afraid of the assassin specifically. That's sad...

Composition:

HQ, Troops, Fast, Heavy = All Sisters.
Elite = Non-Sisters. Inquisition and his personal Assassin.

If you move the Celestians points into Troops, you would have:

HQs - 8%
Elites - 14%
Troops - 52%
Fast - 15%
Heavy - 11%

That's balanced. I'd like to see those judge's and other entrant's compositions and compare where they spent their points. Those people are judging it solely on the assassin and the presence of more than one eviscerator. They don't actually see composition at all; therefore, I'd suggest you disregard them and their opinions all together and make a balanced tournament ready list, with a good strong sister theme, with zero-power-gaming aspect to it. If they riot, let them. They're just blind or something. Any tourney list with THAT few of points resting on HQ, Elite, and Heavy is almost fishy since those are the typical slots that those other players max out on. Their troops, if they even bother calculating are probably just barely 40% if they even care about composition at all in that judging process, if not even less when it's not considered. You have more than the minimum, and less than the maximum. That's balance. And it's balanced with a real theme in a limited force. It's practically shooting yourself in the foot compared to their attempts to make sure they win with their power lists. I see no reason for them to dock points or be scared. Unless they're just poor gamers.

Cheers!

[shortgoth]

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

I think they're grasping at straws because they're afraid of the assassin specifically. That's sad...

I couldn't agree more.

I'd like to see those judge's and other entrant's compositions and compare where they spent their points

.

Ask and ye shall recieve mate. Here are the other lists with their preliminary comp scores:

------------------------

1500 pt BTs:

HQ
Marshall Ludenhof - orb of Antioch, lightning claws and frag*
Chaplain (Reclusiarch) ? boltpistol and orb of antioch*
Emperors champion 100

ELITE
5 terminators with 2 assault cannons

TROOPS
10/2 crusader squad with powerfist/meltagun 205
8 crusader bolter squad with powerfist and plasmagun*
8 crusader bolter squad with powerfist and plasmagun

FAST ATTACK
Landspeeder tornado*
Landspeeder tornado*

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator annihilator with extra armour and heavy bolter sponsons*
Predator annihilator with extra armour and heavy bolter sponsons
----
500pt Addition:

6 assault squad with 2 flamers, meltabombs and powerweapon*
6/2 crusader squad with powerfist and meltagun in a Drop pod*
6/2 crusader bolter squad with power weapon and plasmagun in a Drop pod


1500pts Space Wolves

HQ:

Wolf guard battle leader [bike, runic armour, frost blade, bolt pistol, frags]
Vennie [assault cannon, extra armour]

Troops:

4 wolf scouts [melta gun, WGL - thunder hammer, bolt pistol]
8 hunters [plasma gun, plasma pistol, 2 fists, 4 bolters]
8 Hunters [melta gun, 2 fists, 6 bolters]
8 Hunters [plasma gun, 2 plasma pistols, 2 fists, 3 bolters, drop pod]

Fast:

2 tornados

Heavy:

pred anni [heavy bolter sponsons]
pred dest. [las sponsons]


The Above two armies are given a -2 for comp compared to my -10


1500pt Biel Tan

Farseer; Jetbike; Guide; Singing Spear; runes of witnessing

Vyper; Scatter laser; Shuricannon

6 Banshees; Exarch+Executioner in Wave Serpent; tl Starcannons; spirit stone

8 Scorpions; Exarch w/ power fist; Stealth

8 Warp spiders

6 Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent; tl Bright Lances; spirit stone

Wraithlord; Bright lance

3 D-Cannons

Falcon; Starcannon; Holo field+Spirit Stones

This list gets a -3

1500pts Alpha Legion:

HQ

Leuitenant, speed, infiltrate, dark blade, ccw

Troops
8 marines with 2 meltas, asp champ with powerfist, infiltrate
8 marines with 2 meltas, asp champ with powerfist, infiltrate
8 marines with 2 flamers, asp champ with powerfist, infiltrate
6 marine 2 plasma guns, infiltrate
6 marines lascannon, plasma, infiltrate
6 marines lascannon, plasma, infiltrate

Fast
8 raptors, 2 meltas, asp champ powerfist

Heavy
8 havocs, 4 meltas, asp champ with powerfist, infiltrate

No quote for the comp score, but "would be mid-level".

-----------------

I do feel a need to point out that none of the comp scores are "set in stone", this is just the opinion of one of the judges, but I'd assume the others are of a similar mindset.

[MalVeauX]

That puts a lot of light on it.

Look at the overall compositions there.

BT: HQ,Elite, FA, & Heavy (all his points). Only in higher 2k points does he actually put models in his list... And he has 3 HQ's total. Drop Pods are there too. His overall score should be low in my opinion.

SW: List is actually not bad composition wise. He has zero choice on HQ, and he still packed in good points in troops (those boys are expensive!). Though where'd that drop pod come from? Otherwise, notice none of his units are a like? He should get good points overall for this list (aside from that Drop Pod).

Eldar: Raw cheddar; legal too! He has less negative points than you? I can't even guess why.

Alpha: That list is solid. I'm surprised they're not all crying and blubbering about all that infiltrating melta and powerfist goodness, with those ranged lascannnons in the rear. That's a mean list to fight and he's mid-level?

... I seriously don't follow the logic of your group there.

-- Again, I suggest you do your own thing. Make your army how you like. Forget about the scores; they're meaningless if the others have lists like that and are getting nothing. It's an obvious bias towards you, because of the assassin (yet, they have 2, 3 HQ's... Wraithlords, AP2 templates, heavy armor, skimmers, etc right? Sure....). Not worth it.

I truly hope you stomp them.

Cheers!

[shortgoth]

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

Eldar: Raw cheddar; legal too! He has less negative points than you?

He has less than a third of the negative points! Anyhoo, another list, re-jigging things once more:

1500 Pts list:

HQ:

Canoness w/Jump Pack, Cloak of St. Aspira, Eviscerator, Bolt Pistol
=111pts

The all-purpose girl, a fairly standard build

Elites:

Inquisitor w/Bolt Pistol and CCW, 1 Gun Servitor w/Heavy Bolter, 1 penitant, 3 familiars.
=74pts

Had to alter his gear/retinue somewhat to get the other girls in. Still has the same core elements though and the same application, but without the 3-in-4 chance of choosing my own dpeloyment zone. However this isn't too much of an issue - the tables are all using fixed scenery with minimum 25% cover and I should still get choice 50% of the time anyway just through average dice.

Callidus Assassin
=120pts

>

Troops:

16 Sisters w/bolters, including VSS w/BP, Eviscerator and Book of St. Lucius
=220pts

16 Sisters w/bolters, including VSS w/BP, Eviscerator and Book of St. Lucius
=220pts

16 Sisters w/bolters, including VSS w/Bolter and Book of St. Lucius
=195pts

Solid core of 48 Sisters, all 3 units work together (classic phalanx tactic) for mutual covering fire and I managed to squeeze a couple Eviscerators in.

Heavy:

8 Retributors w/3 Bolters, 4 Heavy Bolters, VSS w/Bolter and Book of St. Lucius
=167pts

Standard Ret squad. Hopefully get somewhere useful to put them in each game and even if not, well, the enemy still need to advance towards me, right? Puts out equivalent firepower to the large sisters units should the enemy get to within rapid-fire range with the S5 shots making up for less bolters

Fast Attack:

8 Seraphim w/5xTwin BPs, 2xTwin Hand Flamers, VSS w/BP and Eviscerator, Book of St. Lucius
=230pts

6 Seraphim w/3xTwin BP, 2xTwin Hand Flamers, VSS w/Twin BPs, Book of St. Lucius.
=161pts

One large squad, one small squad. Can work with the Canoness to cover the vast majority of the battlefield between them.

Total of 1496pts, 1 HQ (7.4%), 2 Elite (13%), 3 Troops (42.3%), 1 Heavy (11.1%), 2 Fast (26.1%)

500 Point addition:

This is where the gloves come off

HQ:

Canoness w/Jump Pack, Cloak of St. Aspira, Eviscerator, Inferno Pistol
=125pts

The beardy second Canoness.

Troops:

16 Sisters w/13 bolters, 2 flamers, VSS w/Eviscerator and Book of St. Lucius
=232pts

Yet more Sisters with a scarily large chainsaw.

6 Arbites w/5xShotguns, Plasma Gun
=70pts

6 Arbites w/5xShotguns, Plasma Gun
=70pts

And the min-maxers favourite, lthough not as bad as they could be

497pts (and an entire legal army unto itself - how many other people's additions/reserves will be able to claim the same? Bugger all, at a guess)

Brings me to a Total of 1993pts with 2 HQ (11.8%), 2 Elite (9.7%), 6 Troops (50.4%), 1 Heavy (8%.4), 2 Fast (19.6%).

I've resigned myself to getting hammered by comp. But even with a -10 score, that still means I can aim for 90 points for gameplay (for generalship points, you take the VPs you earn divided by 100 with a max limit of 20 for each of the 5 games) plus sportsmanship and painting scores.

I don't believe I'll win the tournament. I don't expect to win all my games. But it should be fun and I'd like to go in with a chance.

[MalVeauX]

Hey man,

Looks good to me. My only concern would be anti-tank support in general--mainly, land speeders and skimmers which will cause you serious problems throughout the game. The heavy bolters can bust the speeders, but the A12 skimmers will cause headaches. Other than that, you should be doing fine for missions.

Best of luck!

Cheers!