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daemon hunters v tau
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 00:29   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default daemon hunters v tau

how on earth without tanks is it possible to get close enough to beat them in close combat when they can shoot you from the other side of the board
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 00:33   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

This really depends on what you're thinking of.

As a whole; The Daemonhunters can fight the Tau just as easily as another army, because the Daemonhunter list as a whole is pretty balanced out.
However, if you're referring, specifically, to Grey Knights vs. the Tau, then we're talking about something completely different.

So before I flesh out a few pointers on the matter, maybe you can give me a little more information as to the nature of the question? Were you meaning just Grey Knights, or the Daemonhunters as a whole?

Cheers!
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 00:36   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalVeauX
This really depends on what you're thinking of.

As a whole; The Daemonhunters can fight the Tau just as easily as another army, because the Daemonhunter list as a whole is pretty balanced out.
However, if you're referring, specifically, to Grey Knights vs. the Tau, then we're talking about something completely different.

So before I flesh out a few pointers on the matter, maybe you can give me a little more information as to the nature of the question? Were you meaning just Grey Knights, or the Daemonhunters as a whole?

Cheers!
yes i was meaning grey knights
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 00:55   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

In that case, there really is not one-stop answer.
Pure Grey Knights were never intended to be fielded in a balanced manner. Grey Knights themselves, are a close combat oriented elite unit, without true transports that can be dedicated, who must either walk or deep strike, or hitch a ride in a Land Raider in order to get around the battle field. Their weapons are completely limited in what they do, as they were meant for nothing more than anti-infantry.

Tau on the other hand, embody every weakness that the Grey Knights have.

1 - They're faster; They have skimmers.
2 - They have very high strength weapons and can move very quickly into range in order to use them.
3 - All of their weapons can easily destroy units of Grey Knights both from long range and short range.
4 - Tau can easily destroy Land Raiders.
5 - Tau have a lot of nasty short range weapons which will easily deal with deep striking Terminators.

Grey Knights were never intended to be the sole unit type on the board, against an army such as Tau. This is merely a situation that is created from a player, who really likes Grey Knights enough to play them, as an unbalanced force in the game, against opponents who will have lots of advantages over them in many respects. Pure Grey Knights can, however, be a strong army and fend for themselves quite well, but they are not so lucky against the Tau nor against the Eldar for that matter. These two armies, are simply very fast, house powerful anti-power armor and anti-terminator weapons and have enough range and unit numbers to evade Grey Knights, even when they finally close in for the kill. This makes it incredibly difficult for them.

Now, some Grey Knight players may claim that it's very easy for them to destroy Eldar and Tau armies, but they're talking about a different kind of fight. A Tau army based solely on static elements (such as Broadsides, Fire Warriors and an Ethereal) will be an easy battle for a Grey Knight since The Shrouding can help stop the long range fire right away. Also, weapons such as Psycannons easily rip through these kinds of armies, making it much safer to approach them at close range, such as Deep Striking. Now, this doesn't happen against a Tau army that may be packing plasma and fusion blasters, hammerheads and devilfish mounted Fire Warriors, for example, which are highly popular now in 4th edition with the new rules to make them a very potent mobilized strike force. These types of forces happen to have all their strengths over the Grey Knights and all of their weaknesses covered, against the Grey Knights--in short, making it a brutal one sided fight, if you were to assume both players had the same skill level and tactical expectancy. The Grey Knights, simply are not balanced as a stand alone army.

So, what can you do? Throw in the towel? Call it quits? Never! Simply find creative ways, or with hard numbers, and push forward. It's the only thing we can do.

1 - Inducting the allied imperial guard is a great way to increase your chances in this fight. The long range weapons will help slow down skimmers and slow down battle suits from encircling your units and destroying them in the shooting phase and then jumping back to safety. Also, the Imperial Guard supply extra bodies, which require more shots to kill, allowing the more small units of Grey Knights a little less pressure in their jobs.

2 - Psycannons are your best friend. A Troop of Grey Knights at full 36 inch range will eat through troops of Tau and even tear throug a few battle suits, while avoiding some of the return fire thanks to Shrouding (but only for a short while).

3 - Dreadnoughts can usually only last a single turn against Tau firepower. However, in that single turn, if you get a chance to, you can kill off a Broadside or stun a critical tank for a turn to allow yourself a chance in some departments. While it may be a giant sink in points, since armor is easily destroyed by Tau, it may also be the only way to eliminate early threats, one shot at a time.

4 - Land Raiders are great for moving Grey Knights. They're also great at being destroyed by railguns. However, their twin-linked lascannons cannot be over looked at all times, since they could shake a few skimmers, or insta-kill a few Broadsides if you can see them. This can be a huge aid, while sitting back, in cover if possible, and claiming obscured target in order to remain on the glance charts and survive a turn of fire.

5 - If you can land a few critical long range shots your first 2 turns; you may be able to relatively safely land some deep striking units in order to (a) disrupt their ranks or (b) kill some units off. Tau can easily focus fire your units to death, but if you eliminate most of their low ap attack units, you can possibly have a Terminator or two survive, and once in combat, that's all you will need to stop an entire unit, which slows their fire and allows you to do more and more. If you can manage to deep strike several units (2 or 3) at once, you're really going to give yourself a break by doing so as the Tau will not usually be able to deal with that many, even at close range, if you had a few good shots on your first turns to slow down their low ap access to destroying you.

There's several other ways, and possibly some that aren't thought of and written up yet - however, that's where you come in and your gaming experiences comes in. Not everyone's opponents are the same, so obviously the advise will differ here and there. The best thing you can do, is anticipate what you will be facing and attempt to avoid the easy pit falls on the way

Cheers!
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 01:07   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

Play on a small board(48x48 inchs) and have as much terrain as possible. Deploy as close as you can to him and protect yourself from fire by getting locked in CC.

Is a honourless way to play, but the tau are honourless to fight agaisnt, I would know ;D :
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 01:08   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

orbital strick works really well on devilfish and hammerhead

[Edit :: In the future, please don't quote long posts in one block as it quickly takes of a lot of space, if all you're adding is a single line response. --Thanks! -Mal]
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 01:35   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

Quote:
orbital strick works really well on devilfish and hammerhead
Unfortunately it doesn't work all that well really. Perhaps you've had a few lucky shots here and there?

A - Orbital Strikes can only be used if you have an Inquisitor in your army (this implies non-pure Grey Knights obviously).

However, the mechanics of the Orbital Strike vs. said targets, Hammerheads and Skimmers, simply don't work well together. Here's why:

1 - Orbital strikes target only a single terrain piece; Within this terrain piece, it may scatter from any point.
2 - This implies that the Hammerhead or Devilfish would have to be in that exact terrain piece, or very near it (unlikely).
3 - Orbital strikes always scatter; And they scatter quite a bit. It's extremely difficult for them to actually hit any target on purpose.
4 - As Ordnance, the center hole of the template must be over the vehicle; or the strength is cut in half - that means S5 lance strikes, or S4 melta-torpedoes.
5 - To top off all the improbable chances of this (though it's possible mind you), Skimmers moving fast, can only be glanced - so all the odds go to waste.

In the end; the chances of an orbital strike actually hitting, scattering perfectly into and covering with the center hole, glancing and destroying a Hammerhead or Devilfish are extremely dismal. It my happen once in a blue moon, but your odds with a single lascannon are actually extremely better (and even they are poor!).

--- Have you done this, or was it an idea?

Cheers!
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 05:37   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

Well as a Tau player I have fought Daemon Hunters and Grey Knights an awefull, awefull lot as anyone who has read my battlereports will know. What I have found are as follows:

The more grey knights on the board the happier I am. I may lose a static squad or two if they deep strike but in general I can spread out to avoid chain assaults and can focus my fire to grind apart one very expencive squad at a time. My commander has a field day with terminators and so do my railheads. 2 Railheads and my Shas'O have a good chance of exterminating an entire 5 man Terminator squad in a single turn of shooting and Ive done it before. Ive also had 3 squads deep strike on me before in a single turn and even then it wasnt much of a problem. The tanks zoom up and get in the way blocking off valuably targets while inside the range of shrouding to blast away.

On the point of Guardsmen I dont find them much trouble. A single Railgun submunition can usually get rid of any guardsmen I face. Ive actually had a single railhead blow away 9/10 IG on the first turn, the last of course ran for it right off the board. Mounted in transports like rhinos and with teleport homers they can help bring in the grey knights but in general I find that they are very nice targets for submunitions and an easy way to simply tear apart the Daemonhunter army early waiting for the Grey Knights to get in range. Though with a couple of meltas in the squads they can add some much needed anti armor punch.

So does this leave you stranged? No, certainly not. The best answer I have seen my opponents use is none other than the nuns with guns, yea the sisters of battle. I hate going up against 40 of these gals. They just will not die, with the faith points these can simply run right through the gauntlet of fire. Just as well armored and armed as Space Marines but many more of them. Use them as a sweeping advance for a Land Raider with termies or some other Grey Knights and they can really help the close combat monsters get right up there. The Sisters are just very good at resisting the firepower Tau can throw at them. If you have several large squads splitting fire doesnt help as neither will be stopped though damaged, focusing may get rid of one but the other gets through.

Assasines can help some and they have whipped out whole Firewarrior squads before but my Shas'O usually flicks his fusion blaster in their direction and they vanish. Points are usually better spent elsewhere.

A pure grey knight list is just going to have a lot of problems. The best thing you can probably do is get in a terminator squad in a landraider and use that as your forward unit. Have a dreadnaught sitting back to take long range pot shits while the anti armor fire is drawn to the big imposing Land Raider. Get those termies as close as possible in the Land Raider and when it finally looks like the enemy is going to pop it jump out and start shooting. Hopefully your dread will have been ignored and any Hammerheads drawn out into LOS and range, possibly even presenting side armor while their front is facing the Land Raider. Also with luck the rest of the GKs will have been left mostly unscathed to cross the field.

EDITE: I almost forgot, about lance strikes, just dont. They are not worth it. My opponent used 2 unwittingly for numerous games and never did they ever do any good. I lost maybe a handfull of drones, maybe a crisis suite to them in like 4 or 5 games. Once I knew they were there the surprise was gone and they never did anything the rest of the game.

To answer your question in short though, against a competent Tau player, you cant. Any Tau player, particularly a mech Tau one will be able to stay within rapid fire range and still stay out of assault shooting you all the way. Against static lists its not going to be very hard, just a bum rush across the field but mech lists are going to be a great pain. They can simply scoot away from any Deep striking units and skim around any foot slogging ones.

I hope this helps some.
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 16:14   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

You could just ask your brother for a little help one the rules you know .
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Old 27 Nov 2005, 16:15   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: daemon hunters v tau

yeah but how many times have you lost agianst grey knights
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