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[NockerGeek]

My first tournament is coming up on the 8th of March, so I've been compiling my first 1500-point list. This is what I have so far:

Total points: 1500

++++ [HQ] ++++
Unit cost: 115
XV8 Shas'el
--- [CIB, Plasma rifle, Targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone]

(My primary HQ choice. All-purpose, with lots of shots.)

Unit cost: 97
XV8 Shas'el
--- [AFP, TL Burst cannon, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone]

(My secondary HQ choice, to act as a harasser/bait. Also, a decent anti-horde unit.)

++++ [Elites] ++++

Unit cost: 186
3x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [Missile pod, Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker]

(A unit of Fireknives - the all-purpose Crisis Suit configuration.)

Unit cost: 141
3x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Missile pod, Flamer]

(A unit of Deathrain suits; great for dealing with threats at range, including light vehicles, with flamers for anyone who gets too close.)

++++ [Troops] ++++

Unit cost: 103
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade]

Unit cost: 103
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade]

Unit cost: 103
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade]

Unit cost: 103
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle, Photon Grenade]

(4 groups of 8 Fire Warriors for taking/holding objectives.)

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Unit cost: 189
8x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse Carbine w/ Markerlight, Photon Grenade]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

(Markerlight and taxi support.)

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Target lock, Flechette discharger]

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Target lock, Flechette discharger]

(Anti-vehicle support, with submunition rounds coming in handy for countering hordes.)

My overall strategy is two-fold:
- Destroying the enemy through combined/co-ordinated fire
- Seizing nearby objectives, while contesting more distant ones

The two command suits are there to basically be fire magnets, harassers, and bait. Meanwhile, the troops will be focusing on claiming nearby objectives on foot while pouring fire onto anything that gets too close. Everything else - the Pathfinders, the elite Crisis Suits, and the Hammerheads - are there to destroy targets of opportunity and to make sure that targets on my opponent's side of the table aren't uncontested, either through speed or firepower.

As far as opposition, I'm not exactly sure what to expect. I can imagine that there will be Space Marines and Orks present; beyond that, I need to be flexible.

As a final note, I was originally building a MechTau army before 5th Edition came out, so I don't have more static units like Broadsides. Also, I only have one Devilfish (I had a second, but the tabs that hold the engine pods in place broke off when it tumbled, and I haven't yet figured out a good repair for it), so I can't mechanize my FWs.

[leatherback]

As a final note, I was originally building a MechTau army before 5th Edition came out, so I don't have more static units like Broadsides. Also, I only have one Devilfish (I had a second, but the tabs that hold the engine pods in place broke off when it tumbled, and I haven't yet figured out a good repair for it), so I can't mechanize my FWs.

This happened to me too I would recommend just glueing on the engine. Over all, it looks pretty good. The only thing I don't like is the Fireknife team (it just isn't that good). I would replace it a Helio+ bodyguard for the first commander and a Heatwave team.

[knightperson]

Double-check your arithmetic, because I think your AFP commander is more expensive than you claimed. Maybe you intended him as a shas'vre (which is also a decent build), but make sure he has the hard-wired multi-tracker so he can fire both weapon systems. If you intend the HQ suits to take a lot of fire, they should each have two drones, probably be shas'o for the extra wound, and consider iridium armor and/or stim injectors. If they're going to run around on their own (rather than attached to something else), the second shield drone is definitely worth it. It's too easy for a Devastator squad to cause 2 wounds with lascannons, and that will kill the suit outright if he fails a cover save.

Deathrain and Fireknife suits are good, reliable builds. I'm not generally a fan of the fireknife, but with only 2 railguns you're going to need the AP. You could swap them for helios (plasma and fusion) if you're good enough to dance them just out of charge range. Also, consider mixing up your suit sidearms like the flamer on the deathrains. If you replace one flamer with a drone controller and 2 gun drones, you now have 3 groups of models for wound allocation, which makes the squad surprisingly resilient.

I would drop the photon grenades, and possibly the bonding knifes from your fire warriors. In most cases, photon grenades do more harm than good: they won't save the fire warrior squad, but they might cause them to hold on for that first round, which means they will be massacred at the end of YOUR turn, and the assaulting unit will charge another squad. If the fire warriors just die the turn they are assaulted, then they can be avenged with pulse fire in your next shooting phase.

One devilfish taxi shared among 5 infantry squads means that an awful lot of them will have to walk. Consider dropping one squad for another transport (after gluing the engine back on).

Hammerheads look good. The twin railheads are a fairly nasty thing to face across the table, even when they don't have as much firepower on the move as they used to.

[NockerGeek]

Yeah, I noticed yesterday afternoon that I forgot the HWMT for the AFP suit. I've corrected that in my new revised list. Other changes include:

- Changing the AFP suit from an HQ choice to a Elite choice. It's technically bait, so I can get a little more bang for my buck by making it a cheaper shas'vre team leader and adding gun drones instead of shield drones. That gives it 5 S5 shots with rerolls at 18", along with the blast weapon.
- Dropping the FW shas'uis and their bonding knives.
- Dropping all the photon grenades
- Adding a Devilfish to the first unit of FWs. That will double my transport capacity.
- Adding a second shield drone to the HQ suit.

Total points: 1500

++++ [HQ] ++++
Unit cost: 130
XV8 Shas'el
--- [CIB, Plasma rifle, Targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, 2x Shield Drone]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Unit cost: 186
3x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [Missile pod, Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker]

Unit cost: 141
3x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Missile pod, Flamer]

Unit cost: 97
XV8 Shas'vre Team Leader
--- [AFP, TL Burst cannon, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, 2x Gun Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Unit cost: 165
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

Unit cost: 80
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 80
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 80
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Unit cost: 181
8x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse Carbine w/ Markerlight]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Target lock, Flechette discharger]

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Target lock, Flechette discharger]

[leatherback]

I would drop the fireknife team for another devilfish with SMS, multi tracker, and a d-pod, and a burning eye+ monat (to accompany the commander). Use the leftover points to give your other devilfish SMS and a multi tracker and, if there are any points left, give them seeker missiles.

[MentosMkr]

Hm, I don't know if you should drop your bonding knives, it's not very hard to make LD7 run. If you're in an annihilate match if they are shot to below 50% (lets face it, FW are quite weak) they wont be able to regroup and you'll easily lose kill points, bonding knives make it that much harder for them to get those kill points. You also don't want all your troops running way when it's time to capture objectives, so i think it'll be worth pouring 60 points more into those squads. The only way i would not take bonding knives and Shas'Ui is if they FW were in the fish the whole game, since LD test won't apply anymore until the fish is shot down.

[xShaperx]

The 8 man squad is where its at. And I like your HQ.

What would your response be to a Drop Pod army? You can't exactly Ninja Tau with this list.

[NockerGeek]

What would your response be to a Drop Pod army? You can't exactly Ninja Tau with this list.

In all honesty, I don't know. This is my first tournament, and the only other games I've played were a few 1000pt games against a Blood Angels player last summer (under 4th Edition rules) and a 1000pt game against a Necron player (under 5th Edition rules).

What should I expect from such an army? I'm assuming I'd have to deal with immobile transports deep striking behind my lines, but beyond that, I don't know any specifics.

[NockerGeek]

I may have a miscalculation in my point costs (or a typo) - the monat Elite suit is coming in at 92 points in one point calculator, but for some reason I have 97 points above (copied from Army Builder).

Also, one possible change would be to just go a bit more static and drop the FW fish, and put back the shas'uis and their Bonding Knives. The downside is that I end up 30 points short. I can throw some upgrade on the Pathfinder fish - or one upgrade (Flechette Dischargers, maybe) and a pair of Seeker Missiles.

[NockerGeek]

Found the point discrepancy - for some reason, my AFP/TLBC suit had a HW Target Lock on it. Don't really need that.

On a whim, I tried out leatherback's suggestions, to see what the list looks like. Here's what I get:

Total points: 1499

++++ [HQ] ++++

Unit cost: 130
XV8 Shas'el
--- [CIB, Plasma rifle, Targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Unit cost: 141
3x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Missile pod, Flamer]

Unit cost: 90
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Plasma rifle, Targeting array, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, HW Target lock]

Unit cost: 92
XV8 Shas'vre
--- [AFP, TL Burst cannon, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Gun Drone, Gun Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Unit cost: 215
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, SMS, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Seeker missile, Seeker missile]

Unit cost: 80
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 80
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 80
8x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Unit cost: 231
8x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse C./ Marker]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, SMS, Landing gear, Disruption pod, Multi-tracker, Seeker missile, Seeker missile]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Flechette disch., Multi-tracker, Target lock]

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Flechette disch., Multi-tracker, Target lock]

I miss the Fireknives (in the games I've played, they've always performed well) and the extra Missile Pods they bring to the party, and I don't know if losing two Plasma Rifles for one twin-linked one is a great trade-off. However, I do get two Warfish (each with two Seekers) for the bargain, which definitely doesn't hurt. I'll have to fix my spare 'fish in the meantime, and throw together a Burning Eye suit (oh, if only my minis were magnet-modded), but it's nothing I couldn't do in time.

[NockerGeek]

I think I finally have the list where I want it. I decided not to add more Devilfish; if I'm going to mobilize, I want than two for 5 transportable units (and I will be buying 2 more in April, most likely). However, I did add back the FW shas'uis and their bonding knives, and I tweaked my Crisis Suits somewhat. I'm still running Fireknives and Deathrains, but the Deathrains now have a couple of gun drones to spread out the wounds (along with a target lock to allow me to split up the missile fire a bit).

It's definitely not Ninja Tau, nor is it a mechanized list, nor is it fully static. It's kind of a hybrid Kauyon list, with my Fire Warrior gunline holding objectives on my side of the field, and everything else going hunter-killer as the enemy tries to take them; however, if the enemy decides to hunker down and stay at range, the mechanized units switch into Mont'ka mode and remove them through co-ordinated fire.

Total points: 1500

++++ [HQ] ++++

Unit cost: 130
XV8 Shas'el
--- [CIB, Plasma rifle, Targeting array, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Shield Drone, Shield Drone]

++++ [Elites] ++++

Unit cost: 171
XV8 Shas'ui TL
--- [TL Missile pod, Flamer, HW Drone controller, Gun Drone, Gun Drone, HW Target lock]
2x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [TL Missile pod, Flamer]

Unit cost: 186
3x XV8 Shas'ui
--- [Missile pod, Plasma rifle, Multi-tracker]

Unit cost: 92
XV8 Shas'vre
--- [AFP, TL Burst cannon, HW Multi-tracker, HW Drone controller, Gun Drone, Gun Drone]

++++ [Troops] ++++

Unit cost: 95
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 95
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 95
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

Unit cost: 95
Fire Warrior 'ui
--- [Pulse rifle, Bonding knife]
7x Fire Warrior 'la
--- [Pulse rifle]

++++ [Fast Attack] ++++

Unit cost: 181
8x Pathfinder 'la
--- [Pulse C./ Marker]
Devilfish
--- [Burst cannon, 2x Gun Drone, Landing gear, Disruption pod]

++++ [Heavy Support] ++++

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Flechette disch., Multi-tracker, Target lock]

Unit cost: 180
Hammerhead
--- [Railgun, 2x Burst cannon, Landing gear, Targeting array, Disruption pod, Flechette disch., Multi-tracker, Target lock]

[Rudog]

Not sure how much use you are going to get out of those gun drones with your Deathrain squad.  To me, it seems like excess points.  And also, what is you plan with the Deathrains?  Anti-transport I'm assuming?  If so, do you think you really need 3?  Maybe you could cut that team down to 2 Deathrains.

Also, do you think you need 8 marklights (aka 8 pathfinders)?  I would think that 4 to 6 marklights would be plenty for your army since you aren't carrying seeker missles anymore.

I'm not positive what you meant with your comment on deciding against the Devilfish for the troops... if it was because you lack the models or what.  But if you were interesting in adding some mobility and objective capturing ability, I do have a suggestion.

If you:
1) Drop Deathrain Team down to 2 and dump the Gun Drones
2) Reduce 2 of your Fire Warrior teams down to 6 and remove their leader w/bonding (not really needed when only 6 models)
3) Reduce the Pathfinders down to 6
4) Remove the Fletch from the Hammerheads (hopefully you are keeping that at a large distance from assualters)

Then you can give those 2 6 man FW teams Devilfish w/Disruption Pods.  It would reduce your firepower a little bit, but replace that with far more mobility and ability to capture territories.  It would also leave you with 16 points... maybe add another shield drone to your HQ.

My only worry with that idea is that you now have 3 Devilfish with 3 sets of Gun Drones... which can turn into free Kill Points.

Just another thought.  By the way, I really like your XV8 Shas'vre with the TL-Burst/AFP & 2 Gun Drones... very interesting little idea there.

[NockerGeek]

Not sure how much use you are going to get out of those gun drones with your Deathrain squad.  To me, it seems like excess points.  And also, what is you plan with the Deathrains?  Anti-transport I'm assuming?  If so, do you think you really need 3?  Maybe you could cut that team down to 2 Deathrains.

The gun drones are mostly to provide some extra wounds to the unit, and to deal with threats that get within flamer range. The Deathrains themselves are anti-transport/light vehicle/bike units; I could probably cut that unit down to two.

Also, do you think you need 8 marklights (aka 8 pathfinders)?  I would think that 4 to 6 marklights would be plenty for your army since you aren't carrying seeker missles anymore.

8 markerlights give you roughly 4 hits per round. That gives me 4 ML hits that I can give to other units to either raise BS or drop cover against the targeted unit. Death by co-ordinated fire. Cutting that number down drops the utility of the unit.

I'm not positive what you meant with your comment on deciding against the Devilfish for the troops... if it was because you lack the models or what.

Mostly lack of models. I have one complete 'fish (for the Pathfinders) and one with broken engine pods. Down the road, I'll make my collection more mechanized, but for now I can at best squeeze in one more 'fish. For only helping one unit, I don't know if it's worth it (and I still have to either fix the 'fish or give up and glue the pods in place).

Just another thought.  By the way, I really like your XV8 Shas'vre with the TL-Burst/AFP & 2 Gun Drones... very interesting little idea there.

Thank you! Without the gun drones, it's actually worked well in past games (getting a unit caught between that suit and a unit of FWs is a bad day), so adding two more twin-linked shots at 18" should only make it better.

[NockerGeek]

Well, if I drop one Deathrain and the gun drones, I can:

- keep one Deathrain as a team leader, and give it a HW Target lock, allowing me to split the unit's fire if needed
- upgrade one Fireknife to team leader status and give it a HW Target lock as well
- upgrade one Pathfinder to a shas'ui and give him a bonding knife
- upgrade the Pathfinder's Devilfish to a fully-fledged Warfish (SMS, multi-tracker, target lock, targeting array)

And I come in at 1498 points. I think that's a fair trade for one Deathrain suit and 2 gun drones.

[knightperson]

I think the warfish is the only significant upgrade there, but it is a nice thing to have on the table. There's no point in a target lock on it, though; use those points for a disruption pod. If you want a target lock on one of the deathrain squads (which is not a bad idea), just drop one of the flamer sidearms for it. You won't end up using the flamer very often as deathrains are quite effective (and much safer) at long range. Having another different type of model will let you play with the wound allocation rules a bit, which makes the crisis squad much tougher. Generally, the only time I bother target-locking battlesuits are when they are likely firing at vehicles. Broadsides always get one, and deathrains sometimes do. It's useful to drop 2 medium tanks with railgun fire or two light transports with deathrain fire. Any squad that is going to be primarily firing at infantry is a different matter, and won't need to split fire; you want to take one squad all the way down at a time unless you're playing against a low-leadership army.