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Poll

Should a Tyranid army field a Deathleaper?

Yes. Should always take one.
Situational. Should be taken with a reserve, outflanking, or ds army.
Never. It's good on paper. But in game it just doesn't pan out and is a waste of points.
Absolutely Not. This model is the worst 40k model ever.
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Author Topic: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?  (Read 296 times)

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chicop76

Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« on: March 11, 2010, 11:15:34 AM »
Deathleaper

I don't have my codex with me right now so I can't get into specifics. But I looked at it enough times to give it a general over view. I'm thinking of doing the pros and cons of the model. Originally I didn't want to take this model but convince myself to do it after I did a pro and con list.

After the list I'll do an overview and give my 2 cents about the model.

Pros

1. Stealth:
While looking at the models abilities I've noticed this model has the best stealth in the game. You're basically rolling 1d6x3 to see the model. Yes I know half of 2d6 and 1d6 is slightly differant, but it doesn't change the range of seeing at all. So the average model can only see this lictor 3"-18" with 9" being the average range to see. You can argue 10.5" would be average really but I'm trying to k.I.S.S. Which is almost a 2" difference.

Anyway with an average seeing range of 9" it greatly reduce the chances of getting blown to bits. You can place 6" away from a unit and only have to worry about one unit shooting you or even 12" to where it's unlikely they can shoot you unless they go out of the way to do it. With this ability it's likely this model can survive a turn to help insert ds in you army or help out with the reserve roll.

2. Decreased Leadership: At first glance I thought the -d3 of a target model is nice but ok. Than I started to think of some applications which makes this power pretty useful.
         A. Anti- Psyhood: Man those psychic hoods can shut down your nid army capable of preventing abilities like catalyst and warp blast from working. -d3 of the librain or inquisitor would put their leadership values between 5-9. Since you're going of 10 it would greatly help the chance of getting your powers off. On average you should be able to lower a Liberians leadership to 8 so when you die off you'll be getting a +2 and your powers would automatically work on a roll of 5 or higher.

           B. Anti- Psyker: As mentioned from me talking about the psychic hood you could lower a librain psychic test on average to 8. This would cause your opponent some difficulty in casting his powers. Also if caught within other tyranid abilities like shadows. It would make it even harder for the enemy psyker to get his powers off.

            C. Standard Troop Sargent: Maybe there is an annoying unit like a rocket team, assault marines, or just a squad you don't like. Most models have their leadership values around 7-8. With a Sargent they can raise the squads value between 8-9 for morale and leadership test.

With the -d3 you just took out the squads +1 leadership. Which is good cause it helps you to make the squad flee, get pinned, or fall prey to other effects. An effect like scream can come in handy to get that one extra wound on a unit.

                D. Special Characters: The -d3 ability can reduce their leadership to stop the 9-10 bonuses that armies can get. But it can hamper effects like creed and kell making orders less effective. Also so leaders give off like a 6-12" aura where other troops can use their leadership. With the -d3 the area leadership could be reduced or negated.

3. Better Rending:
This model can rend on a 5-6 in shooting and in hand to hand combat. It can possibly hit rear armor at str 9 by assaulting or shooting. In combat with marines you can possibly kill 2 at a time. This unit could beat the stuffing out of guard, eldar, and tau troops with it's high ws.

4. Redeployment: 
This model can leave the board and appear anywhere it wants. So fo example you're having problems with a battle tank. You can disappear and reapear behind the battle tank and fire at it's rear armour. You can also disappear and reappear on an objective to contest it or defend. You can also support your army anywhere a lictor can be a helping hand.

5. Combat:
What can I say. Really high ws, I, lots of attacks, plenty of wounds, and pretty strong with good rending. Str 3 squads will have problems dealing with this cat cause they would need 4-5s to hit and 5s to wound. More than likely this model will strike first in assaulting or being assaulted.

With fleshhooks this unit can shoot twice and hit with 5 attacks which could wound up most squads. Also you have hit and run which allows you to break of from combat and do the 7 hit combo again or relocate somewhere else.

6. Cover: This unit gets a +1 to cover saves and has move through cover. These two abilities makes the unit harder to kill and means he can move through cover easier.

7. This character have more abilities than any other nid you have. So that right there should be a plus.

8. Reserves Boost: Can allow for pin point ds and gives +1 to reserve rolls.
 
Cons

1. Reserve Boost:  I can get +1 to reserves and anything ds within 6" would
get to hit on target. These two abilities is very good but hard to pull off with this character.
          A. It's fine and dandy he could do those two abilities but I'll have to wait till turn 3 to pull it off.
           B. Starts in reserve so I'll have to come in at some point in the game to be of some use. So the reserve boost can potentially don't count for much since I can be the last model to come in.
            C. I can't control how other models come in. The only good I can see this models ability have is to hold your reserves latter. But you can cheat and say you forgot to do your roll is one way I guess. You can take a Swarmlord which can help cause you can use the re-roll to delay other units. The problem is on turn two you're re rolling on 3s. So there is still a good chance forba trygon and lictor coming in on the same time.
             D. The model has to survive 1 turn for your reserve bonuses to be of any use.

2. Surviveability:
With a toughness of a marine and a +5 save it's rather easy to kill this model out of cover. Also in combat it can't take too many hits that get pass it's ws. At t5 it would be good all around. But at t4 a squad of marines can kill this model.

Also this model starts in the game flat footed and can only get 2 shots off before it gets assaulted and killed in combat.

3. It's not the cheapest model to take that's for sure. You'll be hard press to earn back it's points back.

4. The model lost the ability to attack while coming in via reserves and the +2  to it's cover save. The attacking part allowed the model to survive by getting into combat to avoid flamers and shooting.

Well that's pretty much most my pros and cons on the unit. I left out some pros like being able to not scatter, but I think the pro list was long enough already. I had more cons but I forgot some of them when I actually realized this was a good unit.

IMO every army should take one. Sure it takes up an elite slot which can be considered a con. But the pay out of this model actually out weighs the cons. I have to admit some intelligence is required to use this model. For example you don't want to ds in the open right by some mystics.

The support abilities and the ability to take out most tanks makes this a great unit. I fought one of these guys before and I choose to ignore it. He didn't use the model at it's best so I never knew how deadly this guy can be.

Anyway I'll like to see others opinions about this model. I allowed the option to change your vote since later on you may realize it's better or worse than you thought it was.
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Tyrant Chrysaor

Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2010, 01:30:23 PM »
Good analysis, +1.
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Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 05:32:53 PM »
I do think sometimes it gets too expensive to put in a 1000 point army. The decreased leadership will also make something die easier to boneswords which should be put in.
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Mandalorian

Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2010, 05:39:09 PM »
Don't use special characters. Plain and simple.
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chicop76

Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 05:47:33 PM »
I do think sometimes it gets too expensive to put in a 1000 point army. The decreased leadership will also make something die easier to boneswords which should be put in.

Good point. I actually didn't put the boneswords into account but it was still pretty much given due to effects like making the enemy run off the board or combined with the broodlord effect. The possibilities is just endless.

I wouldn't say I'm surprised with the resaults so far. I think I should had made two situationl ballets. A general situational like with broodlords or a heavy psker nid army.

It's funny to me cause this unit really don't augment your reserve units. The only time it does it's due to sheer luck. But it's cheaper than using a Tyrant if you want to go the two warrior hq route. It's just I'm still sho ked that this model is a lot better than I orginally realized.

This is one of the cases where I would take a special simply cause it's function is really good. I wanted to take lictors. But that's another rant and you'll have to take a full squad for them to be effective. IMO the leaper is more cost effective than the lictor.
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Sau1us

Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2010, 06:30:42 PM »
I used to bring the lictors every game, but now when compared (poitwise especially) to zoanthropes, what are you going to take? Every game my lictors seem to pop into cover, shoot, and then get shot to death, or the prey simply walks (then runs) away. When a Zoanthrope hits, SOMETHING goes down, and it probably wasn't cheap.

Although I'll give them another chance, I used to love them, maybe I just need to re-evaluate my usage...
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chicop76

Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 06:52:34 PM »
I used to bring the lictors every game, but now when compared (poitwise especially) to zoanthropes, what are you going to take? Every game my lictors seem to pop into cover, shoot, and then get shot to death, or the prey simply walks (then runs) away. When a Zoanthrope hits, SOMETHING goes down, and it probably wasn't cheap.

Although I'll give them another chance, I used to love them, maybe I just need to re-evaluate my usage...

I'm refering to the deathleaper. The regular lictors I'm still trying to justify even bothering with them. One of the major differances is that other models can only see deathleapers between 3-18" away. That alone reduce the amount of fire heading towards the model. If placed right and given support fire it would be hard for the other player to kill it. They'll have to waste shooting trying to see it or shoot at other stuff heading towards them. In some cases the deathleaper can take out an isolated whirlwind disappear and go for the other isolated whirlwind hiding behind a building.

Unless someone is running all 14 armour vehicles, don't really rely on leadership, and is all t4 str4 3+save than I don't see why you shouldn't field the model. Than again it can pen a landraider even though it's a very slim chance.
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broodking

Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 07:29:28 PM »
I think Deathleaper is a very useful addition to an cc army. And although it can be shot apart easily if used wrong, when used right it will make your opponents think twice before hugging cover to escape genestealers(at least, in my experiences)
so if you know how to use it, why not use it?
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Re: Take a Deathleaper or leave it home?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 06:52:03 AM »
Don't use special characters. Plain and simple.

Why? Special Characters are (ussually) awesome!  :o
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