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[Total Members Voted:]

Nightbringer

5 (10.2%)

Deceiver

6 (12.2%)

Monolith

38 (77.6%)

Total Members Voted: 49

[Shadownja]

honest opinion please as im trying to win an argument

[chicop76]

Monolith!

1. Blocks line of sight
2. Attacks all units within 12"
3. Get 2ND chance to re-roll on we'll be back
4. Cost 2/3Rd's the cost of your so called Necron Gods
5. The hardest vehicle in the game to destroy
6. Can teleport units for extra support
7. Can deep strike for max shooting effect.
8. Can leave troops in reserve and they can come out of the Monolith

Necron Gods
Beside the fact these models cost more than 300Pt's and kinda hard to kill against some armies. I think in a 2000pt army or more they may be worth it at that point. Remember the less necrons you have the easier it would be for you to phase out.

[enderwiggin]

I need to know the context for this first.


Against hordes, Mech, what?



At the minimum what is the points level of the game?

[Mr. HF G. Liath]

I would say that the monolith trumps both, but between the Nightbringer and the Deceiver, there is no competition. The Deceiver is LIGHTYEARS ahead of the Nightbringer. I mean, 4 awesome special rules that make you want to burn your rulebook, and +1 int. The monolith is good all around, but the Deceiver is the better Ctan

[omegatron]

tween the 3,  ... Monolith.

between deceiver and nightbringer, if points is not an issue, NB will pawn deceiver everytime.   

[Mr. HF G. Liath]

between deceiver and nightbringer, if points is not an issue, NB will pawn deceiver everytime.   

The Nightbringer will kill the Deceiver, yes. But the Nightbriniger can't
1) Pin Fearless units
2) Leave combat when the enemy is S4+, unlike the Nightbringer
3) Let you "redeploy" your army.
4) Make the enemy only hit on 6"

Yes, the Nightbringer is the BEST CC monster in the game. BUT. It is waaayyyy overkill, and is overall worse than the Deceiver for any real purposes.

[Gabriel_]

They are 3 entirely different units with entirely different applications.  To say one is 'better' than the others is irrelevant.  To say one is better than the others in a certain situation is a valid point for an argument.

[Koll]

I'd partially agree with you Gabriel whilst I generally hold the opinion that Deciever is better than Nightbringer the two C'tan are both situational because despite the Decievers more interesting rules sometimes what you really need is a giant CC sledgehammer if only to put the fear of God into your enemy.

However of the 3 units listed I would still say Monolith is the clear winner because of the sheer volume of strengths it offers weighed against its points cost, which is pretty low for everything you get from it, and whilst the two C'tan are something i'd have to think about fielding very carefully depending on what I will probably be facing the Monolith is a unit that can prove its worth against any foe:

*Sturdiest tank in game (14/14/14 armour with living metal rule(no melta or lance rules work against it))
*Can deep Strike (without suffering side effects if it scatters onto an enemy unit)
*Can teleport Necrons
*Gives a unit an extra bite of the WBB cherry
*The Power core (teleport/power core weapon) can work even if the Lith is stunned/shaken or immobilised and is not subject to weapon destroyed results.
*d6 shots at every unit in range if you're fighting a horde army
*It is also a very useful piece of mobile scenery handy for keeping other units safe.
*Entry point for Warriors coming on from reserve.

All for only 235 points. To my mind the C'tan just don't compare when you look at their points cost weighed against what you get in return for a unit which is overall much more flexible in terms of what you can field it against.

EDIT: I'd also add that as Monoliths fill a Heavy Support slot they don't deprive you of a potential second HQ choice in larger games and you can potentially field 3 whereas you will only ever have a single C'tan roaming about. It's a minor point but think it should be considered as you're getting such a highly effective and influential unit outside of the FoC HQ section.

[omegatron]

They are 3 entirely different units with entirely different applications.  To say one is 'better' than the others is irrelevant.  To say one is better than the others in a certain situation is a valid point for an argument.

but it is Gabriel.
against known or unknown opponent, if given the choice I would not hesiate to pick Monolith over the Ctans.

If given another choice, I would do the same, pick another Lith over the Ctan.
If given another choice I'll always pick Lith over Ctans.

Now the situational relevancy lies on what Ctan to bring if you are decided to bring one.

[Mr. HF G. Liath]

Picture this.
Abaddon, 4 Terminators with twin LCs, and a Daemonprince assault a Deceiver. Deceiver kills the prince. Abaddon does 2 wounds. Next turn. Deceiver killed Abaddon and the Terminators. Then, he proceeds to kill 15 Khorne Berserkers. Only taking 2 wounds.

That is entirely true, and wasn't above average rolling either. The monolith? Didn't do much except blow up some lesser daemons. I agree with Gabriel. Fighting IG? Take the Nightbringer and push their gunline off the board. Fighting MEqs? Take the Deceiver, since most things will be S4+ so the Nightbringer is pointless. Monoliths are on the complete opposite side of the "In-game uses" spectrum. Its really more of a support unit. It can drop a S9 template each turn, to keep the enemy hiding in cover, and gives rerolls to WBB.

[omegatron]

Picture this.
Abaddon, 4 Terminators with twin LCs, and a Daemonprince assault a Deceiver. Deceiver kills the prince. Abaddon does 2 wounds. Next turn. Deceiver killed Abaddon and the Terminators. Then, he proceeds to kill 15 Khorne Berserkers. Only taking 2 wounds.

are we talking above 2K pointage ?

pardon me for saying this but the CSM player appears to be a noob.  I would never ever assault a Ctan.  It seems that the CSM player have everything at his disposal to phase out the Necrons with 4CSM chosen termies with TLCs, demonprince and Abaddie the bad dyi boss? I've phased out Necrons with less, only Kharn and a few zerkers .

Everyone will agree here, against a necron with CTan and Monolith, armed with a very CC oriented CSM, at 2K points below, it's darn easy to phase out Necrons (they are down to 1.4K pts necrons phaseout is around 300-350pts). With the leadership and fallback rules it gets quicker.

have you actually seen a Necron teleporting between 2 Liths and abuse the 'hospital' rule ? ain't a pretty sight, ain't fun either.

Now I would like to see how REAL necron veteran players view this issue.

Given 2K below pointage against an all-comer list (you don't know what your opponents list):
(1) would you take a Lith, Deceiver or NightB ?  (only 1)
(2) would you take a combination of Lith and Ctan or both Liths ?  (only 2)

[Mr. HF G. Liath]

Now I would like to see how REAL necron veteran players view this issue.

Wow. Thats insulting. I have put in my 2 cents and I get insulted? I think you all need to realize that Monoliths should not be compared to Ctan. They are the exact opposite from each other. That being said, if you take a Ctan, you better take a Monolith or it will get shot to hell. Also, unless you're tailoring a list, there is no reason for a Nightbringer. The Deciever is better against 90% of armies, and for tournaments always take it if you plan on taking a Ctan. Redeploying is awesome. Pinning Carnifex's is awesome.

Now, I will say something that you will probably flame me for. Pariahs. Take a unit of 4, hide them with a Deciever behind a monolith. You have no idea how effective this is. Anything and everything will fall before you and your awesome LD abusing power.

[omegatron]

there is no insult intended.
the statement only implies that i want to hear viewpoints from vet Necron players who joins sanctioned geedub tourneys. We can field all sort of 'experimental' list for casual or friendly games, but only few fields an unproven list come tourney time.

which is better: nightbringer, deceiver or monolith

unless I'm reading it wrong the TS wants to know if given a choice in his list  which would he pick. We are discussing how Lith and Ctan fit in competitive environment, not comparing them pound-for-pound.

+++++

Now, I will say something that you will probably flame me for. Pariahs. Take a unit of 4, hide them with a Deciever behind a monolith. You have no idea how effective this is. Anything and everything will fall before you and your awesome LD abusing power.

No need to flame over trivial things.
CTan, Lith and Pariahs are non-'necrons'. At 2K pointage (or Perturabo forbid 1.5K pointage) you already spent 40%-50% on non 'necron' units. It takes very little to phase out at that points.

i guess 3x defilers, 3x vindicators, 3x leman Russes/basilisks, farseer with dark reapers, Broadside spam are a rare config in that area.  Ever asked what happens if that Lith goes down ? Or how can 1.7K points of necrons hide in 1 Lith?

There are 2 things why funky list doesn't get into the winner's bracket (1) it's a one trick pony and (2) it only looks good on paper - if you add terrains, missions and objectives of the actual tourney, it crumbles.

[Mr. HF G. Liath]

Necrons are already easy to phase out. Whether you take "Necrons" or not, if your opponent has looked at any sort of tactica for fighting Necrons, best bet you will loose.

Now, I took Necrons to BoLScon '09 and placed in the top half (One place above Droids_Rule) and I used 4 Pariahs, a Monolith, Deceiver, 33 Warriors, 6 Heavy Destroyers, and 10 immortals. I used the Heavy Destroyers to pop things like Defilers and Vindicators before they wrecked too much havoc, and rapidfired most thing to death. It worked a lot better than I fought. I managed to keep my Warriors in cover, and basically did the opposite of Phalanxing. I sent my Deceiver and Pariahs at the enemy, and stayed back in my deployment zone, and made them come to me. The Destroyers demolished all light armor, and Mech lists ended up having to footslog. You'd be surprised how many people will charge into cover without frags, and realize that Necrons are essentially really slow marines, and ended up loosing combat. If you take your army, and plant it somewhere, you can hold that ground for a LONG time.

[Unholy Harbinger]

You can't really compare the threee. The C'Tan are situational and the Monolith isn't but does a majorly different role.

The Nightbringger is if you neeed a big CC sledge hammer to pound on the enemy in close combatt.
The deciever is excellent in his special rules when fielded correctly his abilities make him deadly and he still has lots of CC goodness.

The monolith is extremely different as it has a support element in teleporting and a second chance at WBB, while also having the option to chose the very powerful template to wipe out units.

If i had to choose though I would pick up the monolith first as it is much better value than the C'tan.