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[Wargamer]

Stop being a retard, Thunder.

If you want to argue that the Doom of Malantai can hit units in a Transport, then you must let everyone else do it!

Since nobody else can, nor can Malantai. This is nothing to do with "logic", because 40K has repeatedly proven logic is not the correct method of obtaining the solution; shooting attacks cannot fire into a vehicle, Psychic Powers cannot fire into a vehicle. Models in a vehicle cannot be Assaulted. We have repeated examples that you cannot do anything to a unit as long as they are in a transport, and thus you cannot.

The day GW turn around and say that Flamers hit the unit inside the Rhino, not just the Rhino, is the day you can use Malantai to hit models in a Transport.

[Ryan Thunder]

A wall would prevent you from being hit by a flamer. It would not, however, save you from the Doom's power, because there's no practical difference for our purposes between sitting behind a wall and sitting in a Rhino, whatever mysterious undefined properties you may attribute to vehicle hull materials notwithstanding.

Do you think I like the implications of that? I don't, really, but it makes sense, and I'm not so intellectually dishonest as to ignore that.

[Wargamer]

A wall would prevent you from being hit by a flamer. It would not, however, save you from the Doom's power, because there's no practical difference for our purposes between sitting behind a wall and sitting in a Rhino, whatever mysterious undefined properties you may attribute to vehicle hull materials notwithstanding.

Do you think I like the implications of that? I don't, really, but it makes sense, and I'm not so intellectually dishonest as to ignore that.

According to the rules of 40K, a wall does not prevent you from being hit by a flamer. The only thing that stops a Flamer hit is being physically out of range!

[Ryan Thunder]

Eh? I don't mean the kind you get a cover save from, I mean the kind that physically and totally blocks LOS, like a space hulk corridor bulkhead, say.  You can't shoot a flamer through those, can you?

[Wargamer]

Only because the Flamer states you need LoS.

Smart Missile Systems don't need LoS, just range - they can't shoot a unit in a Transport.

[Tyrant Chrysaor]

Only because the Flamer states you need LoS.

Smart Missile Systems don't need LoS, just range - they can't shoot a unit in a Transport.

The SMS is still a shooting attack. The Dooms power is not.

[Wargamer]

It does happen in the shooting phase, however.

Furthermore, I seem to have missed the paragraph marked "tell the rules to Aulma off and make stuff up." Maybe it's not in my version, because in my version the Doom of Malan'tai has a section saying "this unit follows the normal rules of 40K, save for the following:"

It then goes on to say the Doom of Malan'tai doesn't roll to hit, doesn't need LoS, hits all units in range, and can be used in the opponent's turn. My version doesn't have a rule saying "can hit units in a Transport", so it can't.

[chicop76]

What power are you talking about and how is it worded for you to think it affect troops inside a transport. Some abilities affect troops in transports. I just want to know what the fuss is about. I really doubt the x str large blast effects troops inside a transport though.

[Wargamer]

What power are you talking about and how is it worded for you to think it affect troops inside a transport. Some abilities affect troops in transports. I just want to know what the fuss is about. I really doubt the x str large blast effects troops inside a transport though.

Spirit Leech.

The rule, in its entirety, is thus:

"At the beginning of every Shooting phase, including the foe's, every non-vehicle enemy within 6" of the Doom of Malan'tai must take a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed the unit suffers a single wound for each point they failed by, with no saves allowed."

Nowhere in that rule, which is the entire rule word for word, does it state you can hit units in vehicles.


So, this 'debate' is basically this:

STEP ONE - Stupid people claim Doom of Malan'tai can hit units in Transports.
STEP TWO - Smart people point out it can't, and provide evidence to the contrary. Specifically, that all existing precedent (shooting rules, psychic rules and assault rules) all state you cannot hit a unit in a Transport. Furthermore, even weapons that do not need to see, or even specify a unit as a target (the Vibrocannon) cannot hit units in Transports.
STEP THREE - Stupid people claim Doom of Malan'tai can hit units in Transports, and back up this claim by pointing out that Doom of Malan'tai can hit units in Transports.

Edit: Oh yeah... one other thing. The Doom of Malan'tai allows Cover Saves. Isn't that interesting? I think so, because that supports my theory it is treated as a normal Shooting attack, save for the exceptions listed in its rules.

[chicop76]

What power are you talking about and how is it worded for you to think it affect troops inside a transport. Some abilities affect troops in transports. I just want to know what the fuss is about. I really doubt the x str large blast effects troops inside a transport though.

Spirit Leech.

The rule, in its entirety, is thus:

"At the beginning of every Shooting phase, including the foe's, every non-vehicle enemy within 6" of the Doom of Malan'tai must take a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed the unit suffers a single wound for each point they failed by, with no saves allowed."

Nowhere in that rule, which is the entire rule word for word, does it state you can hit units in vehicles.


So, this 'debate' is basically this:

STEP ONE - Stupid people claim Doom of Malan'tai can hit units in Transports.
STEP TWO - Smart people point out it can't, and provide evidence to the contrary. Specifically, that all existing precedent (shooting rules, psychic rules and assault rules) all state you cannot hit a unit in a Transport. Furthermore, even weapons that do not need to see, or even specify a unit as a target (the Vibrocannon) cannot hit units in Transports.
STEP THREE - Stupid people claim Doom of Malan'tai can hit units in Transports, and back up this claim by pointing out that Doom of Malan'tai can hit units in Transports.

That is kinda silly. If it effects the crew inside vehicles than other area effects would do the same.

For example the cullidius effect would effect psykers in a transport causing them to jump out the transport and run away.

I still don't see how it would effect them. The only way it would work the way people want it to is to throw the rules out the window. I see the otherside and see how it would effect people that way. But by how everything is worded in the rules I don't see it happening.

That's like grenades should actually hurt people like in real life. Or I can be point blank and a eldar sniper can get a 4+ cover save cause he ducked. Hello people. You won't miss someone at point blank cause they ducked especally if you was aiming center mass. The list goes on and and how things in the game don't make realistic sence. Like why are some guard models taller than space marines.

I think this is so serious reaching. They probably not gonna FAQ that cause it's pretty to the point.

[Chrono San]

Even though Wargamer is too harsh, and a true dyeri to all those he claim as retarded and stupid, which is the attitude that made me dislike him. I must admit that i think he is right about this one.

i think it all have turned too harsh now, all of you. but wargamer have kind of spoken the most harsh stuff against the rest though. i'd say stop fighting and wait for the FAQ.

[Ryan Thunder]

Folks claim Doom of Malan'tai affects units in transports because it affects "every non-vehicle enemy" and formations in transports are not only both non-vehicle and enemy, but in the battlespace.

Wargamer claims that it can't, declares anybody who disagrees with him an idiot, and proposes that every transport in the game (including open-topped vehicles) is equipped with exotic materials and devices designed to protect against the effects of psychic powers, even though any such device would use entirely different rules based on precedent.

Fixed.

[Lord Scythican]

So does anyone want to switch subjects and appreciate some different Nids? Man I am sick of the Doom. Wait for the damn FAQ already. I have avoided making the damn model because of the arguing. My local shop hates the model and everyone on here is just as bad.

So how about the Pyrovore? I tried one out Sunday and I couldn't get it close enough to do anything.

[Chapter Master Seth]

Edit: Oh yeah... one other thing. The Doom of Malan'tai allows Cover Saves. Isn't that interesting? I think so, because that supports my theory it is treated as a normal Shooting attack, save for the exceptions listed in its rules.

I thought it had been generally agreed that it does not allow cover saves as it is not a shooting attack, or indeed an attack of any sort. Just auto wounds taken for failing a test; I'd file it under the same category as Dangerous Terrain. This is another fuzzy area of the rules. What we really need is the FAQ...

In any case, you two really need to stop acting like children. People are sick of this topic and you should both know better than to flame like you are.

[Tyrant Chrysaor]

Final warning Wargamer. I understand the point you are trying to make but the method you are using is unacceptable. Stop it. You are a global and one of the oldest members of the community. We are supposed to set the example.