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[Ramiel]

As the tittle says is a army with out pathfinders a good idea?

[Sidstyler]

In short: no.

They may be expensive, but markerlights are almost a necessity, they make Tau shooting that much better. The ability to downgrade cover saves and shoot at BS5 to reliably wipe targets off the board is too good of a thing to ignore, and markerlights are also one of the few things unique to Tau.

I'd take at least one squad of them. I personally use two, but that's only because I don't have another piranha squadron and I got a bunch of pathfinder models cheap.

[fiercegoldfish]

As the tittle says is a army with out pathfinders a good idea?

I agree with the previous poster however it also depends a lot on how many points you are playing with. at 500 points for example pathfinders wouldn't fit in.

[Sidstyler]

I have a name! 

Though you couldn't possibly pronounce it in your tongue...

[Boneguard]

As the tittle says is a army with out pathfinders a good idea?

I agree with the previous poster however it also depends a lot on how many points you are playing with. at 500 points for example pathfinders wouldn't fit in.

Sure it does
4 pathfinder and a devilfish with Disruption pod is 141 points (or is it 146?)
Your commander (a shas'el) can be made to be around 100 points
2 teams of 10 fire warriors will come to 200
and you got 54 points to spare for wargear or an extra suit.

It a bit tight, but you got the markerlight and a transport for your troops.

[fiercegoldfish]

As the tittle says is a army with out pathfinders a good idea?

I agree with the previous poster however it also depends a lot on how many points you are playing with. at 500 points for example pathfinders wouldn't fit in.

Sure it does
4 pathfinder and a devilfish with Disruption pod is 141 points (or is it 146?)
Your commander (a shas'el) can be made to be around 100 points
2 teams of 10 fire warriors will come to 200
and you got 54 points to spare for wargear or an extra suit.

It a bit tight, but you got the markerlight and a transport for your troops.

But you would be boosting the bs of 20 firewarriors and a single suit (who doesn't need the boost anyways). for 145 points ide rather take a couple more suits instead, especially since at 500 points your board wont normally be huge so a transport isn't neccesary. Guess that's just preference though

[Boneguard]

True everyone has his preference, but you seem to have a limited view of the markerlight power.

boosting the BS is one, but my favorite use of it is reducing the cover save which is probably a better use in 5th ed since cover save is more prevalent.

[juraigamer]

I've actually been playing 1000 point and under games with repeated success lately, though 1500+ requires markerlights.

[Jedibean]

I actually recently fielded a 2000 point farsight army with no pathfinders.  I had 2 squads of 6 fire warriors that didn't shoot anything the whole game.  My crisis suit teams all had twin linked weapons with a targeting array and my HQ's all had targeting arrays along with their hardwired multi-trackers.  So my army was a flat ballistic skill 4 pretty much and some of them were twinlinked ballistic skill 4.  It actually worked out ok.  Granted my opponent wasn't the best at this game but it was still a fun army to play with a lot of surprises up their sleeves.

[GoneFishing]

Yes - An army without Markerlights of any sort (Pathfinders or not) is completely possible and effective.

I go without them all the time, but it really does depend on what kind of force you are running.

For an Example - Boosting BS.

Troops - I use a Kroot Heavy list generally - so 2 to 3 units of Kroot and 1 unit of the basic 6 Fire Warriors in a Devilfish - The Kroot cannot make use of the Marker Light Tokens, the Devilfish I upgrade to a Warfish and give a Target Array (so BS4) and the 6 Fire Warriors rarely leave the Devilfish unless they are blown out of it.

Elites - My Suits normally have a TL Weapon, and in the case of Deathrains Etc, a Target Array too. - BS4 TL - You rarely miss.

Fast Attack - well its an underused section, Vespid - no thanks -, Pathfinders - Well Pathfinders bring Markerlights to the table but if you dont really need the Markerlights you dont need the Pathfinders. Piranhas I use, but not as an offensive unit - so they dont really need the accuracy.


Heavy Support - Skyray, I tend not to use (but if you do it brings its own Markerlights), Hammerheads - BS4 already and Broadsides - TL rail gun, which I generally find pretty effective without needing a BS boost.

Seeker Missiles - I dont use any.

Minusing Leadership tests for pinning - With the amount of units that are stubborn, fearless etc etc - I simply dont find it that useful (and I carry no Pinning Weapons) - bizzarely the only Army thats really troubled by pinning now is Tau...So if your playing Tau with your Tau, it could be useful :p.

Coversave removal - Granted, this one could be useful, but generally I dont pack that many decent AP weapons to guaruntee removal of the normal save anyway, would be useful against Horde sometimes - but is it worth diluting the rest of your list to squeeze in one ability? Working it out, the extra guns I get from the 160+ points spent on Pathfinders and a Devilfish probablly evens out the overall kill rate.


At the end of the day, we dont use Pathfinders because they are a good well balanced Troop choice (overall - they arent, especially when you have to buy the Devilfish for them [Admitablly 5th ed has helped offset this cost as we can pass it to the Fire Warriors]) - We use them because they are the cheapest way of bringing Markerlights to the Table, the Path Finders without Markerlights would never see the battlefield, but because of the Markers they become quite good. In a Ninja Tau list for example, the Path Finders wont see much use - Conversely however a bare minimum squad of 4 in a Tooled out Warfish can be great, not for the Markerlights - but for the tooled up OUTFLANKING warfish they provide - Armoured support for your Out Flanking Kroot - or if you have alot of Deepstriking Troops, the Pathfinders Devilfish is again useful, for the reroll it offers on the scatter.

But if your list is one that does not need the Markerlights to function, there is not much point in trying to squeeze them in.

Markerlights are Great, they are the Tau's Signature ability - Primarily there use is boosting BS, removing Cover Saves, and Launching seekers - the other options are either defunct or a bit to situational to be really useful.

So if you are running a Fire Warrior heavy list, or have plently of units pumping out high volumes of fire (Stealths etc), If your XV8's are packing Plasma and Fusion for MEQ anhilation, you are running vespid and want to maximise there kills. If you have a deepstriking Army and want it to land on target. If you are packing Heavy amounts of Seeker Missiles and relying on them to anhilate your opponents armour etc etc etc - Then Pathfinders are a great option and will maximise your armies abililities - because they are the cheapest, most effective way of putting Markerlights on the Table. - And in some lists you do "Need" them, because they are a great support unit [thanks to the Markers and the Devilfish abilities] but in other lists - you really dont, and trying to squeeze them into your list will be detrimental to the way your list functions.

So its a "No" - You don't have to use Path Finders to have a successful list, it all depends however what type of list you are playing - like any unit, if they fit into the list you are playing, and maximise the abilities of the units you are fielding - then use them. If they don't, then don't. - You dont have to take them to have an effective force - and there is no point in juggling points totals and dropping units to take a unit that you feel you "should" have if it isnt really going to help you.

They are a great support unit, if you dont need that support you dont need them

[Rafe]

As the tittle says is a army with out pathfinders a good idea?

Hell no.

Used mine tonight, first time in 8 months and they pwned. Removed the overbearing cover from enemy units, allowing me to use precise plasma and Ion weapons to full effect, and boosted my BS to 5 for other weapons.


The cost for pathfinders is somewhat mitigated with the change in dedicated transport rules - before it was a pain having to buy them a devilfish, but now as you can use it to shuttle around fire warriors its not too bad.


Stick em in cover and let them sweep the board


You don't need full size units either - if you're low on points, a 4 strong unit used as support for a fire team (against horde) or a helios team (against marine) can make a lot of difference - statistically you will get 2 hits - which means that fire team is now double tapping at BS 5, or that helios team has knocked the enemy cover down to a 6+, if not negated it fully.


The only way I would ever consider not using pathfinders would be if I had both my tetra pairs running in a small game, or tetra pairs and sensor towers in a larger game.

[Semaj7]

It depends for me, lately I haven't.

As of late I have been running armies that look like this.

HQ - Helios 'El with 2 Helios Guards
Elite - 3 TA Deathrain Teams (2 Man Teams, No Leader), occasionally I'll make one team TL PR.
Troops - 2x 6 Man Firewarrior Teams with Warfish. Occasionally I'll take a 12 man team with 2 marker drones for objective camping.
Heavy - 2 Hammerheads and a 2 Man XV88 Team.

It's pretty effective if used correctly, but it depends on the army for the most part.

[knightperson]

I love pathfinders and rarely go into battle without them. I use them as the center point of my strategy and the anchor of any and all formations that I run. Only at the 500-point level are they absent from my army. Still, my way is not the only way to play, and some people swear by other methods. As others have said, a kroot-heavy list backed up by deathrains and similar highly-accurate units doesn't have much need for markerlights. Many players dislike the pathfinders because they're so static, choosing to get their markerlights elsewhere. The most common is the stealth team with marker drones, but crisis marker teams can also work. A few players manage to use the sniper drone spotters for markerlight duty, but that there are rarely enough hits to be effective. Finally, don't discount the skyray as a markerlight source. At first glance it appears to be a weird alternative to the ionhead, but keep in mind that it's the most durable, most mobile markerlight-carrying model available. It works very well in combination with the pathfinder squad, but can also work on its own.

[salamut2202]

pathfinders are almost mandatory in my list. not as a support per say but simply for the ouflanking marker lights whick people really don't like and will assault. alot of my tactics rely on enemy deployment zone distractions. oh, and their devil fish ain't bad neither.

[KCKitsune]

I don't use pathfinders because they ALWAYS get the klkn blown out of them... then again that was in 4th edition rules.  I might have to try them again.

I take Shas'Ui's with Markerlights and HW Target Locks.  I also use the Forgeworld XV-84 suit.  I find that is enough markerlight support for my army.