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What's Next?
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Old 19 Sep 2004, 16:08   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default What's Next?

Well I've started on my Gaurd, which is using the Grenadier Doctrine, so I have my 1st and only storm trooper squad halfway done. I am probably going to get another storm trooper squad and a command squad (as soon as my wallet recovers) but where should I go from there?

Oh yeah and I kno some of u guys hate doctrines, so even though it may be hard, plz keep this constructive.
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Old 19 Sep 2004, 18:33   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What's Next?

umm, i'd get kasrkin over stormtroopers
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Old 19 Sep 2004, 19:26   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: What's Next?

If you're talking about the models, I am using the kasrkin models, the old stormtroopers look god awful.

My Sergeant is over thisway
<-----------------------------------
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Old 19 Sep 2004, 19:47   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Next?

i'd post my kasrkin seargent, if i had a pic of it
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Old 19 Sep 2004, 22:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Next?

Right, here's my advice:

1) Grenadiers are a bad move. Trust me, Grenadier heavy armies either batter their enemies, or get massacred. More often than not, it's a massacre.

2) Doctrines are a bad move. They will make you look a total newbie, especially if you use Plastic Cadians. Learn how to play "proper" Guard, then experiment when you've got enough wins to be respected (and "2 or 3" is not enough).

3) Buy a 25-35 man Platoon, and an Armoured Fist. Either that, or two Platoons (though that'll hurt your wallet more). After that, buy a Leman (or two), and a Griffon. If you need the rules, I'll give you them, and GW can go f*** themselves if they don't like it.

Don't bother with the Basilisk unless you play on large tables. They're too fragile, and their blind-spot is too big for smaller tables. About 6'x8' is best for a Bassy, though 4'x6' will do at a stretch. Any less, and you're wasting points and money.

Edit: Don't swear
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Old 19 Sep 2004, 23:39   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: What's Next?

Ahh the doctrine debate, the one thing I wanted to avoid. First of all my priority is a) fluff b) painting/modeling c) gaming
As for looking like a newb, what does it matter, people hate "newbs" so much, did it ever occur to anyone that we were all newbs at some point? I'm tempted to make an army with sharpshooter, carapace, and xenofighters just to see those who hate doctrines cringe. Maybe I'll just get some rough rider models and run you down in a fiery explosion!

Mr. Afro smiley please deliver your rebutle.
O0Foshizzle

sry I'm just venting, becaus it seems everyone hates doctrines, I personally think it gives good flavor to a , in my opinion pretty bland army.
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Old 20 Sep 2004, 01:28   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: What's Next?

Another thing is that my army is supposed to be it's own entity, not a part of the Imperium, I just think I wouldn't be doing my army justice if they were using the normal IG army list. I'm sry if I came off as a crazed anti-vanilla kinda guy.

If you wanta read my fluff it's in the fluff section under Armydian Guard (part II)
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Old 20 Sep 2004, 01:48   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Next?

People around here don't hate newbies, just Wargamer mainly. Don't ask me why but I have rants from him about the flood of newbies into the guard after the new codex. Maybe being an old Space Marine hand I'm just gotten use to them and don't mind helping them out. However when it comes to what works there is no one you can ask that knows better than Wargamer. You did ask where to go form there and you didn't say this was going fluff first.

Now, since your going fluff first and we have now seen what you have it gives us a few options. Going for a high-tech knights theme is diffrent and I like the story you've made for them. I'd say the gernadiers doctrine works for your 'knights' on foot but you might want to consider perhaps afterwards getting roughriders also. Not only a decent hand to hand unit(so I have found in the fighting) but also fits with your fluff. You might want to model your own though as there are only two roughrider types of models and niether fit your theme. Keeping with the hightech you could even see about getting some motorbikes instead of horses if you wanted. Again, have seen this done with bitz orders of the archive SM bikes for a Ghosts army.

You probably want the carapice doctrine also so you can give your HQ heavier armour since these would be your 'lords'. The basic rabble you either might want to make from conscripts to show a large, citizen 'levy' or you might put them in as heavy weapons squads showing a trained men at arms who would prefer to stand back and shoot and to beef up your some what lacking firepower at this point.

Hope that helps a little.
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Old 20 Sep 2004, 08:02   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sar Arvon
As for looking like a newb, what does it matter, people hate "newbs" so much, did it ever occur to anyone that we were all newbs at some point?
That's why I play Marines. Marines are the perfect Newbie army, and they are the one I started on. However, they also provide for experienced players too. Guard are nowhere near as forgiving...

Quote:
I'm tempted to make an army with sharpshooter, carapace, and xenofighters just to see those who hate doctrines cringe.
Fine, but you'll lose every game.

Quote:
Maybe I'll just get some rough rider models and run you down in a fiery explosion!
They'll never make it. Rough Riders are cannon-fodder. I've seen a squad of 10 charge into my lines, only to be gunned to 2 by Lasfire just before charging.

Quote:
sry I'm just venting, becaus it seems everyone hates doctrines, I personally think it gives good flavor to a , in my opinion pretty bland army.
The problem with them is that people don't use them properly.

For example, if you're taking Drop Troops, then I'd expect to see Grav-Chutes (Parachutes), O[sub]2[/sub] masks, goggles and so forth on every single model. If you're using Carapace, Plastic Cadians aren't good enough.

I've been making "Fluffy" Guard armies since before the Guard had a Codex, and I never needed Doctrines to do them justice on the field. Occasionally, an idea crops up that suits Doctrines, but normally they aren't worth it. Of all Doctrinated lists, 50% are piss-poor combos, 40% are attempted powergaming, and tha last 10% are actually fluffy lists, sometimes sacrificing gaming ability for the sake of fluff...

So unless you're going that far, Doctrines are not for you.
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Old 20 Sep 2004, 08:21   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Next?

Also, as for your choice of Doctrines:

Sharpshooters is a waste of points. Trust me, I've been a SIGAFH player from the beginning, and so I know what works well and what doesn't when it comes to blowing the hell out of people... and Sharpshooters ain't it. Giving it to anyone other than a Heavy Weapon Team armed with 3 Lascannons (A guy called Jenkins on EO did the math for this) is a waste of points.

Carapace is the same. While less men die, they cost more, so you have fewer men to begin with... and they're only really useful against AP 5 weapons. AP 6 or less, and you still lose the same amount of VPs per model killed. Higher, and you lose more VPs per model.

Xenohunters is fine, if you're willing to model severed heads onto every single model. Otherwise, you can't legally use it.

Finally, the reason I hate Guard Newbies is I've seen so many of the stuck-up scumbags plonk down a bunch of Plastic Cadians, so up themselves that they refuse to accept that I, a Veteran before they'd even seen a Lasgun, may know more about their army than they do, and provide a variety of ways to tell me to piss off... then get slaughtered, often by me.

Doctrines were the Guard's "shiny", and for this I will kill GW. Guard should never be collected on "shiny" units, rules or whatever. Guard armies are hard work, and if you can't be bothered to learn how to play the damn army, like most Doctrine-drawn whiteshields, then I have no sympathy for you.

If, however, you are willing to learn how a real Guard army works, then I am willing to help.
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