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assaulty guard
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Old 16 Aug 2005, 05:12   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default assaulty guard

Can anyone think of a good reason other than $$$ and not liking the models not to build a guard army like this:

2 sets of 6 ogryns in chimeras ~500 points

2 standard rifle platoon with lascannons and grenade launchers ~450 points

minimum HQ squad + autocannon squad ~150

1 demolisher and 2 basilisks. ~400 points

That's 1500, with leftover points (everything deliberately overestimated), improve the HQ squad. At 1850, add another set of mounted ogryns and another set of autocannons.

Why not?
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Old 16 Aug 2005, 06:13   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

Firstly,It takes up a dictorine point for Ogryns. Plus guard arn't assaulty. :
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Old 16 Aug 2005, 06:15   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

If you used the search function you would have this topic. Most of your questions could be answered here.
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Old 16 Aug 2005, 17:36   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creed
Firstly,It takes up a dictorine point for Ogryns. Plus guard arn't assaulty. :
yeah, but he's got 5 doctrines to spare, ogryns are fine. And guard can be sick nasty assaulty. I've thought of doin an pyromania swarm assauly list (think C&C Generals Chinese)

Conscripts
Ogryns
Hardened Fighters
Veterans
Mechanised

All troop squads with flamers, 3 hellhounds, army just bum rushes in chimeras, Conscripts sweep behind with any squads that lose their transports. The Chimeras would all have dual heavy flamers, and though it would be very light on the long range support, i figure that enough troops will get there with massive flame to do mass damage anyways.
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Old 17 Aug 2005, 18:45   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

why orgryns in a chimera and not armored fist squads. they are qa little more effective, and the fire from the whole group is mad. if you are assualting, you are doing somthing wrong! unless you play catachans like me or fallen angel. loose the chimeras, and you would almost have an acceptable DV list. even better, you can get a free DV codex here: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/4...x/armylist.htm
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Old 19 Aug 2005, 05:58   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creed
Firstly,It takes up a dictorine point for Ogryns. Plus guard arn't assaulty. :
I was asking for criticism, not sarcasm. First of all, I don't have to use ANY doctrines if I don't want to, then Ogryns aren't restricted, are they? In fact, with the rough outline of a list that I posted, I don't see much need to play the doctrine game...

It's not accomplishing anything to come in here and repeat the mantra that IG suck at anything other than hugging their board edge and lobbing pie plates at anything that comes near them. I'm trying to find a way to effectively challenge that theory, not get pummeled with rotten vegetables. I'm thinking outside the box, not spouting heresy!

Fallen Angel, I read that thread, and while it did talk about assaulty guard in a general sense, it didn't address the possibilities presented by beefy, if somewhat thick-headed, abhumans.

Fingolfin, I chose Ogryns as the proposed assault troops because of their statline. I fail to see how armored fist squads make better assault troops than ogryns do. However, I do want to thank you for addressing your comments to the actual concept that I presented, rather than stopping at "assaulty guard" and calling for the inquisition.

I had no idea that suggesting that the IG codex contained more than ordnance and conscripts (if you look, I do include 3 very fine pie plate chuckers, they're an important part of any list!) was grounds for a flaming. Could someone (even a bunch of someones?) besides Fingolfin and Tolson88 look at what I actually posted and point out weaknesses, ways to improve, etc? If I wanted abuse, I'd go talk to my fiancee.
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Old 19 Aug 2005, 07:07   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

Okay that last post was pointless................dont double unless it nessesary.
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Old 19 Aug 2005, 16:45   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by march10k

I was asking for criticism, not sarcasm.

besides Fingolfin and Tolson88 look at what I actually posted and point out weaknesses, ways to improve, etc?* If I wanted abuse, I'd go talk to my fiancee.
i hate to say it, but you get what you pay for here.
i did not know that our suggestions were abusive and in that case you should be glad that wargamer hasnt said anything yet.
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Old 19 Aug 2005, 20:30   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

'Okay that last post was pointless................dont double unless it nessesary.'

Just as that post was. I'm sure the double post was a mistake anyway.

The problem with Chimera mounted Ogryn squads is that you will usually be the one getting charged, which reduces their effectiveness somewhat and spoils one of the main points in having an assault weapon in 4th Ed. Perhaps if you keep your Chimeras together, when you dismount you could use them to block enemy assaults etc, but it is risky.

I'd perhaps drop the Lascannons in the Guard squads and give them a Melta Gun, and a Sarg, then they can advance to try and get stuck into combat and they can bust tanks at close range. Add to this a reasonably combat worthy command squad with attatched Commisar and Priest etc.

Could give the Demol heavy flamers so that it can also advance (which yuo can now do with ordanance), this will support your infantry.

Maybe a Rough Rider squad that could advance behind your Chimeras, charge to hold up the enemy, the close combat will then block LoS to dismounted Ogryns, who can then join the combat next turn.

Big conscript squads packed out with 4 flamers may also work well too.

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Old 22 Aug 2005, 07:43   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: assaulty guard

The double post was a mistake.

I hadn't thought about the effect of 4th edition on them being able to charge. That is a liability. If I was going to try to screen them with the chimeras, why not just leave them mounted in the first place, then dismount and charge the next turn? I guess being pinned in an explosion or taking a pen-6 from ordnance would be things to consider.

My thought for the dismounted platoon was fire support, trying to take down threats to the chimeras in the first two turns, before the smoke runs out. I could remove the heavy weapon and have them follow in support, but I'm afraid that by the time they get there, they'll be two turns behind the first wave, and nearing the end of the game, unless the enemy is also avancing to meet them. I think they would just end up being used for target practice if they try to walk across the board, but I have the models, so I might give it a shot anyway.

Heavy flamers for the demolisher is an excellent idea, thanks!

Rough riders? Hmmm...I really don't like them, but I think this is the first intelligent idea I've ever seen for their use.

Conscripts are AWESOME...but I have the same problem with them that I have with normal dismounted guardsmen, walking across the board is just too slow. When I use conscripts, it's to deal with deepstrikers in my rear areas. Nobody likes getting hit with a bunch of flamers, then charged by a horde of children, especially when they're packed base to base.


Fingolfin, I guess what I was saying was that your post had no value. I don't mind people shooting down my ideas. But there's a difference between "it'll never work. you suck. get out of this forum. end of post" and "Interesting concept, but it's vulnerable to A, B, and C, and the rules don't allow you to combine D with E. You could possibly mitigate the risk of B with a little F, and C is only a problem if you face Dark Eldar, but A is something that can't be overcome, as far as I can see."
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