Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Beginners Guide to Starting and Collecting Mechanized Guard
Reply
Old 18 Mar 2010, 21:15   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: O'Fallon, IL, USA
Posts: 288
Default Beginners Guide to Starting and Collecting Mechanized Guard

So you've come to the realization that you want to collect and play an Imperial Guard army. Generally, the next decision involves what flavor of Guard you prefer. This article is going to cover all aspects of a mechanized Guard force.

The choice to run a mechanized army is an easy one to make. Guard do mech the best, and when done properly it is quite impressive. If you got in the game for tanks, this is where you probably end up. Mech lists are also quite common in the meta-game right now and are perceived as a strong build type. Let’s examine some of the pros and cons of a fully or mostly mechanized Guard list.

Pros:

Mobility

Vehicles grant you mobility that footslogging can't compete with. A Chimera will move 12" if you want it to, whereas infantry movement will average 9.5" with a normal move and running. And that's without needing to move through difficult terrain. Vehicles can generally ignore terrain, though that occasional pesky 1 will crop up and immobilize you now and then. When you bring the fast tanks and skimmers into the picture, mobility reigns supreme.

Another important consideration is that with vehicles you get heavy firepower that you can actually move and shoot. The alternative is heavy weapon teams, whether they be in line squads or dedicated squads. These do not have the option to move and shoot, so if they find themselves with no targets in range or line of site, they effectively lose a turn of viability.

Chimeras are one of the best transports in the game, and let you fire a full half of a standard 10 man squad out of the top hatch firing point. This is extremely powerful with Veterans inside packing 3 special weapons or Company Command Squads with 4 and a Plasma Pistol.

Durability

Mechanized infantry is shielded from enemy fire (except the Doom – maybe? – but I digress). This is a great thing when your troops are frail T3 5+ armor save humans. Certain lists can be built to run all Carapace Armor, but that comes at a high price. With a mechanized list, you’ll probably only consider running Carapace on units that plan to disembark voluntarily. An example of this is a unit I commonly run, a Veteran Squad with 3 Meltas, Shotguns, and a Powerfist. Another example would be a CC oriented Company Command Squad.

Vehicles are fickle beasts, which can die to a single shot, often killing swathes of your frail men inside. On the whole though, they will only die to about 1/3 of the shots that manage to penetrate them, which means the units inside are more survivable than they would be on foot. Some lists, such as Necrons, will have trouble mounting concerted anti-vehicle shooting, and most lists will have a limited amount. If you’re able to take out those threats, your vehicles will rumble around the board with impunity.

Guard tanks sport some of the toughest armor in the game. Even a Railgun or Warp Blast has a tough time punching through the AV14 front armor on Leman Russ variants, and AV13 side armor is nothing to sneeze at. The 12 front armor of the Chimera isn’t bad when compared to the armor of most other main line transports in the game. High front armor means you can generally place your units where they will be the most effective, with less consideration for what’s going to be shooting back at them.

Firepower

As was briefly mentioned in Mobility, Mechanized IG have access to a wide array of firepower, even shooting out of their transports. The mainline Battlecannon will instant death T4 models and negates Marine armor save – at 72” range – with a large blast. That’s hard to argue with. When you throw in 2d6 armor penetration against vehicles, all but AV14 should be a little worried.

Leman Russ variants can move at Combat Speed and shoot 2 main weapons, including ordinance! This is a HUGE benefit to mechanized Guard over other mechanized armies. Being able to move and fire effectively not only aids mobility, as mentioned, but makes it harder to kill your tanks in assault.

Guard have incredibly diverse weapon selections on fast and barrage style tanks as well, so vehicles can fill a role to kill anything you need to kill.

Valkyries & Vendettas

Yes, these units are so strong they get their own category. I really can’t say enough about these. For the cost of 2 Meltas less than a LRBT, you get a 12/12/10 Scouting, Deepstriking, Stun downgrading, Fast Skimmer Transport that is specialized to kill vehicles / monstrous creatures or hordes.

The Valkyrie can move 12” and shoot a Multi-laser and 2 S4 large blasts. The Vendetta sports 3, 3, twin-linked Lascannons, that can all fire moving at 6”. The only negative to these units is that they don’t have any fire points for transported units.

Cons:

Cost

Both in points and money, mechanized lists are expensive. In the game this will reduce your model count, and to some extent your volume of fire. Vehicles run $25 - $58 from GW, so if you’re working on a budget a mechanized list can take a while to get up to high points levels.

As mentioned, a vehicle can die to a single shot, so I’d caution against pumping too many points into any single vehicle. A common example of a point heavy vehicle is a Leman Russ Executioner with Plasma Cannon sponsons and Knight Commander Pask. If some punk with a Lascannon takes that down turn 1, you’re going to feel pretty dumb, so be careful with your selections.

Assault

With all but 3 tanks and armored Sentinels facing down assault with AV10, close combat troops are a definite threat to mechanized lists. Coupled with that is the fact that most tanks will be sporting blast weapons, which could well hurt themselves at close range.

With a fully mechanized list, you’ll mostly rely on strategic positioning and shooting to avoid this, but it’s often necessary to throw a sacrificial lamb to the wolves to buy time for the rest of your army to shoot down the threat.

On the topic of assault, unlike other walkers, Sentinels are terrible at it. They do not have Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapons and only have 1 attack. That said, Armored Sentinels can make a good tar pit against some armies, but do so carefully as plenty of things will just beat them down too.

Maneuverability

In higher point games, with a fully mechanized list, you will literally have so many vehicles that you could have a hard time positioning and moving them all. Even at smaller point games, if a vehicle is destroyed or immobilized in a movement lane, that can cause trouble too. Compounding these problems is the massive size of the Valkyrie model. If you run multiple, you will realize how difficult they can be to maneuver.

The only thing you can really do about this is keep some vehicles in reserve to free up space. Valkyries and Vendettas can outflank, which is often useful to do.

Vehicle Squadrons

Some people might put this in the Pros section, but I’m almost completely against vehicle squadrons. Does the mechanism allow you to run 9 Valks / LRBTs? Yes. Does that make it worth it? NO!

Squadding vehicles makes them excessively vulnerable – not what you want in a fully mechanized list. Immobilized results become vehicle destroyed, glances and penetrations are allocated across the squad, and you only need to reach one in assault to be able to hurt them all. For all these negatives the only advantage is squadded vehicles ignore stunned results. *twirl*

Unless you are absolutely points constrained I strongly recommend against taking vehicle squadrons.

So, there’s a – lengthy – overview of the main considerations of a mechanized Guard list. I was going to include a section about collecting (see below) and playing the army, but this ended up being longer than expected, so I will break those out into one or more additional posts. Additional thoughts and critique of mine are welcome as always.
Schev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Mar 2010, 21:48   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,246
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

Hi Schev,

Great post! I've had something like 3 people flag this for karma, excellent job!
I will be saving the link so we can compile this for a "how to start IG" tactica.
:cookie: :cookie:

AC
__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit.
-Will Durant
Aftercresent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Mar 2010, 22:05   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: O'Fallon, IL, USA
Posts: 288
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

Thanks AC! I will try to get the other article(s) up shortly.
Schev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Mar 2010, 22:46   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,511
Send a message via MSN to Skeith
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

Aaaaaand Bookmarked

Thanks, this will help weith my Mech Vostroyan a lot
Skeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 02:39   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 24
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
A Chimera will move 12" if you want it to
Also has the benefit of moving 12", turning 180, disembarking with a tiny bit of the base within 2" of the rear hatch and then firing the melta etc. Effectively gives melta a range of just under 27" (12+2+a base+12). One weakness to note is that the Chimera only has a rear hatch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
And that's without needing to move through difficult terrain. Vehicles can generally ignore terrain, though that occasional pesky 1 will crop up and immobilize you now and then.
Got a new list that has 65 points spare, it is very tempting to go for a dozer blade on 2 of the Chimera that will probably swap out both range guns for 2 H flamer with a min infantry squad inside with 1 flamer. This unit is intentionally designed to roll forward through the terrain, leaving the clear paths for other transports. Maybe giving cover to Chimera behind.

Which brings me to a different issues, I was thinking about the weaponry on the Chimera, when to go 2 H Flamers, when H Flamer/Multi laser, when H bolter/Multi laser etc.... Seems to be part of the mech list building thought process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
Another important consideration is that with vehicles you get heavy firepower that you can actually move and shoot. The alternative is heavy weapon teams, whether they be in line squads or dedicated squads. These do not have the option to move and shoot, so if they find themselves with no targets in range or line of site, they effectively lose a turn of viability.
What about when the vehicle is "shaken"? Easy to do then the team inside loses a turn of shooting. Though you can go 12" then disembark and still shoot as long as they aren't heavy shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
This is extremely powerful with Veterans inside packing 3 special weapons or Company Command Squads with 4 and a Plasma Pistol.
First list I made, I put a plasma pistol on a sergeant who also had a power fist (vets). Bad idea. Bad idea. If you want to guarantee an overheat, that's the way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
Mechanized infantry is shielded from enemy fire (except the Doom – maybe? – but I digress).
One of my regular opponents is a Nid player. We agree that I get a cover save and he gets the 3+ Warp Field (as by RAW it is only for "Zoanthropes", not "Special Zoanthropes"). It works out for both of us. For me, RAW + some common sense RAI is the way to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
Being able to move and fire effectively not only aids mobility, as mentioned, but makes it harder to kill your tanks in assault.
Yip lol, someone should tell the Trygons its harder to kill my tanks. They are 12/12 in charging/destroying any tank no matter how far it moved to date .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
Valkyries & Vendettas
The only negative to these units is that they don't have any fire points for transported units.
The lack of vectored engines is a pain. 3 Vendettas last 2 games have died to glance shots after going 24". It is starting to become an issue. Our ld doesn't like the pinning test. Drop chuting is also quite risky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
A common example of a point heavy vehicle is a Leman Russ Executioner with Plasma Cannon sponsons and Knight Commander Pask. If some punk with a Lascannon takes that down turn 1, you’re going to feel pretty dumb, so be careful with your selections.
Marker light railhead shots are bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
Compounding these problems is the massive size of the Valkyrie model. If you run multiple, you will realize how difficult they can be to maneuver.
Then there is the issue of what parts of the model to consider for distance measuring etc. The FAQ didn't clear up all of the questions on this. I think you have to house rule that it can move on 6", then the tail isn't counting, what happens then with an immobilise, but I have many points to make on this matter and its for a separate post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
The only thing you can really do about this is keep some vehicles in reserve to free up space. Valkyries and Vendettas can outflank, which is often useful to do.
However, consider the opportunity cost of doing this, how many turns of shooting are you losing? You are also gambling on getting the side you want. Recently some of the air cav has been going into normal reserve rather than outflank. Depends on your strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schev
Vehicle Squadrons
Some people might put this in the Pros section, but I’m almost completely against vehicle squadrons. Does the mechanism allow you to run 9 Valks / LRBTs? Yes. Does that make it worth it? NO!
I did hear that you can use squadron's to give a beardy cover save by having one in cover and the other not. Having used the LR squadron a few times, it just makes it easier to lose lots of points in one swoop from the opponent.
__________________
2008 UK GT Heat 3 - 2nd
2008 Dutch GT - 2nd best general
2008 Irish GT - 2nd

Always the bridesmaid.....
cmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 12:47   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: O'Fallon, IL, USA
Posts: 288
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac
Also has the benefit of moving 12", turning 180, disembarking with a tiny bit of the base within 2" of the rear hatch and then firing the melta etc. Effectively gives melta a range of just under 27" (12+2+a base+12). One weakness to note is that the Chimera only has a rear hatch.
That's very true, but then your rear armor is exposed. Granted, less important when your passengers have reached their destination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac
Got a new list that has 65 points spare, it is very tempting to go for a dozer blade on 2 of the Chimera that will probably swap out both range guns for 2 H flamer with a min infantry squad inside with 1 flamer. This unit is intentionally designed to roll forward through the terrain, leaving the clear paths for other transports. Maybe giving cover to Chimera behind.
I have always eschewed dozer blades because of the cost. I'm pretty lucky in that respect though, because I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've immobilized a vehicle on terrain. They seem like a viable addition for aggressive Flamer Chimeras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac
Which brings me to a different issues, I was thinking about the weaponry on the Chimera, when to go 2 H Flamers, when H Flamer/Multi laser, when H bolter/Multi laser etc.... Seems to be part of the mech list building thought process.
This is one thing I'll be covering in the upcoming mech gameplay for beginners article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac
What about when the vehicle is "shaken"? Easy to do then the team inside loses a turn of shooting. Though you can go 12" then disembark and still shoot as long as they aren't heavy shots.
I'm not thinking super clear this morning (babies will do that to you) and I don't have my rulebook on hand, but I don't believe you can disembark after moving 12" unless you're a fast vehicle. Anyone with a concrete ruling on this?

When my Chimera's get shaken I normally either A. Disembark and shoot or B. Move 12" toward my goal and pop smoke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac
The lack of vectored engines is a pain. 3 Vendettas last 2 games have died to glance shots after going 24". It is starting to become an issue. Our ld doesn't like the pinning test. Drop chuting is also quite risky.
Really? Huh, I've yet to lose one moving flat out. The 4+ cover save and 6's to hit in combat do pretty well at keeping them intact for me. Realistically you shouldn't need to move flat out very often either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac
Then there is the issue of what parts of the model to consider for distance measuring etc. The FAQ didn't clear up all of the questions on this. I think you have to house rule that it can move on 6", then the tail isn't counting, what happens then with an immobilise, but I have many points to make on this matter and its for a separate post.
The Adepticon FAQ allows you to move large vehicles onto the board 6". If I recall you can still draw LoS to the parts off the board, so it effectively extends the board temporarily. I hadn't considered a partially on immobilization. It seems to be commonly accepted that the wings count as hull.

Thanks for the observations cmac, and welcome to the fold. Always nice to have another voice in the Guard debates. Looking forward to your post on Valk questions.
Schev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 16:19   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ramstein, DE
Posts: 2,618
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

I'd say the price is the real con here. I'd love to play mech guard, but I don't want to shell out so much cash for all those Chimeras and Hellhounds.
__________________
Take a look at my IG/Ork project log
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,75787.0.html

USAFTACP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 16:29   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: O'Fallon, IL, USA
Posts: 288
Default Re: Beginners Guide to Mechanized Guard

I hear you. I've assembled my ~13 vehicles over about 5 years now, and am looking to add 3-4 more before I'll be really happy with what I have.
Schev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 18:27   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: O'Fallon, IL, USA
Posts: 288
Default Collecting Mechanized Guard

Collecting a mechanized Imperial Guard army can be a daunting task. The vehicles are expensive and you will need many of them, and the troops to go in them on top of that. There are some techniques that can be used to make the process a little easier.

Mitigating Cost

One of the nice things about mechanized Guard is that the tank chassis only come in two varieties. Everything with treads on it will either have a Chimera or Leman Russ main chassis. The advantage of this is that it makes for easy proxying, whether it is for testing purposes to see if you really want to purchase a specific variant, or just for practicality until you can accumulate everything you need.

Another bonus is Chimeras are all but a given in a mech Guard army, and to a slightly lesser extent, so are basic Leman Russ Battle Tanks. Given that, if you purchase at least one of each, you have a test bed for future purchases or a resource for variants you might not run as often.

This is of course completely dependent on your play group and not at all viable for tournaments. If your group doesn’t allow some reasonable proxying though, you should probably give them a stern glance and ask them to reconsider.

Another method for mitigating cost, that I strongly recommend is perusing eBay for vehicle purchases. You can find new in box items for 10-15% under retail at all times, and can often find 3 pack bundles for even more of a premium than that. If you’re working on a budget, there’s really no better way to go.

Finally, with the advent of the new vehicle kits with easily swappable weapon options, it’s become a no-brainer to either magnetize weapons or just use some non-binding putty to hold them in place. This will keep you from needing to have a billion vehicles to encompass all weapon sets you might run, and from running “counts as” weapons more than necessary. The new kits are so nice you can often get away with just sliding the weapons in place with no aid as long as you aren’t rough when moving the vehicle.

If you follow this method, you literally get 3 main vehicle options with each Hellhound and Demolisher kit (and hopefully soon to be basic LRBT kits if the rumors pan out) and myriad secondary weapon load-outs.

Collecting

So, as for actually collecting an army, where to start? At this point we should make a distinction as to what type of mechanized Guard you want to play – land or air based. Land based will primarily be mounted in Chimeras, whereas air based will be mounted in Valkyries and/or Vendettas. The latter variety is commonly referred to as Air Cav(alry). There’s nothing preventing you from running a hybrid of these two (as I do), but many people prefer to focus on one or the other. If you’re planning to run both, you’ll probably want to decide on which you want to focus initially.

Either way, I would recommend getting one or more transports first. This is after purchasing the troops that will reside in them of course. After that I would recommend picking up a Leman Russ Battle Tank.

I would follow this pattern of 1-2 transports per 1 LRBT or other specialist tank until you reach the point where you have all of one option that you feel you need, obviously with troops interspersed as needed. Resist the urge and buy the units before their transport – the exception might be Valks/Vendettas. This will allow you to scale up your point level while maintaining a good balance of mobility and firepower.

If you follow these recommendations, collecting a mechanized Guard army isn't quite as dreadful as it first appears, though it's still a bit painful on the pocketbook.
Schev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Mar 2010, 18:47   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Behind you!!
Posts: 3,308
Default Re: Collecting Mechanized Guard

This is another good artice Schev. Only one complaint I can see and that is

Quote:
Another method for mitigating cost, that I strongly recommend is perusing eBay for vehicle purchases. You can find new in box items for 10-15% under retail at all times, and can often find 3 pack bundles for even more of a premium than that. If you’re working on a budget, there’s really no better way to go.
There are other sites that give 20%-25% off, so if you don't want to use E-bay there are several other options.

Dark sphere and gifts for geeks are both very good.

Other than that another good article.

- Will
__________________
NADS
Will of Kaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
warhammer armies, a beginners guide to The Empire El moustache The Warhammer World 2 19 Apr 2010 13:20
The beginners guide to starting a Necron army Lord Of War Necrons 4 18 Sep 2008 10:21
A Guide to Starting the Imperial Guard Ge. Stankov Imperial Guard 16 25 Feb 2006 13:27
A Beginners Guide to the Legions of Chaos 42 Forces of Chaos 6 23 Aug 2005 19:47