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Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 14:16   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

So I'm writing up a preliminary killteam list in anticipation of a friend's idea of a campaign in a Space Hulk. Being the lazy miserly bastard that I am, I decided to just throw all 200 points into a single pimped out Veteran squad. But therein lies my problem: after wargear and a single doctrine (grenadiers), the cost for my killteam stands at 140 points. 60 points is just enough to buy me ALL the doctrines, I thought with homicidal glee.

But then my good friend Dobb called me out. Can I actually take all three doctrines on a single Vet squad? Or is it limited to one doctrine per squad? In the codex, it states 'The squad can choose any of the following doctrines:'.

And no, I'd rather not take Ratlings instead since I don't enjoy the idea of potentially exposing the poor buggers to vacuum conditions. The carapace armor upgrade on the Vets can be fluff-handwaved as vacuum capable armor that just so happens to be better than regular flak armor.
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 15:50   #2 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

Yes you can but that makes for over priced unit that won't do its points back. as a rule I never take more then 2 doctrines on any one squad (usually carapace and demolitions). there are much better options really, I would not take demolitions if that one unit was the only one I had, sounds like a good way blow them up to me.

Now for sixty points there are still 2 other options you can take to beef up the squad other then doctrines, Gunny Harker, and SGT Bastonne. If you decide to take Harker then you get a heavy Bolter that can move and fire and he gives the squad infiltrate, stealth and move through cover.

Bastonne will give you access to orders which could really help in a small game you can increase the rate of fire with las guns, get your guys to move faster or help negate cover saves, all of these things sound very important if you only have one unit on the field.
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 16:15   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

Hmm. I was a bit averse to using Bastonne at first, but on second thought the orders do add a valuable aspect to the team, and also makes sense given that killteams are autonomous in nature, as compared to regular Guardsmen squads. Taking Bastonne leaves me a few points left over from a power weapon I won't need to purchase any more, so that can go into a voxcaster and upgrading the melta to a plasma gun. Sweet. Thanks for the advice.

Here's the list:
Veteran Squad
-Sergeant Bastonne
-Voxcaster
-Flamer
-Grenade launcher
-Plasma gun
-Heavy Bolter HWT
-Grenadiers doctrine

All coming to a total of 200 points. Man, these guys are more well-equipped than Stormtroopers. Granted, the disparate special weapons don't normally make for a good combination in normal games, but since killteams don't need to move in cohesion, I can detach and manoeuver them as necessary to maximize their effectiveness.

Though separating the team is never a good idea on a Space Hulk... *spooky music*
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 12:14   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

I think you would only see marginal use out of the Demolitions Doctrine in Space Hulk games, but in games where you have to destroy a particular hardened target, might be useful. Forward Sentries is more beneficial if you see yourself holding a position, but otherwise has limited use in Space Hulk games. Grenadiers is the best choice, really.

Up to you, really, but I might substitute a few Lasguns for some shotguns. The cramped spaces in a Space Hulk game (usually) hinders weapon ranges. The heavy bolter will probably see some use with long corridors, though, but the Shotguns will give you a little bit of a maneuver asset, not to mention the ability to charge something should you really need to.

Sergeant Bastonne is a really good option. He gives your veterans orders that you would otherwise be going without, and that's a huge boon. Besides, I think he's Leadership 9? With the Voxcaster, you'll be reliably getting orders in every turn.

The choice of special weapons are sound, considering what you'll be up against, though the plasma gun seems a little random. I suppose it'll be good for MEQs, but I'd honestly go with another Grenade Launcher instead, but you've the points to spare.

I personally like Stormtroopers better for Kill Team games, but this one is pretty well-equipped as well. I'm currently putting a Kill Team together of Harakoni Warhawk Veterans (using the IG Valkyrie Gunner Heads and Bodies, along with the Cadian Arms and Lascarbines). They'll be packing two Melta Guns and a Heavy Flamer. With a power weapon, Grenadiers, and Demolitions, comes out to about 180 points.
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 13:30   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

At first I was also pondering the shotgun vs lasgun question, but once Sgt Bastonne came into the equation I decided to stick with lasguns, since FRFSRF doesn't work the the good old shotties (shame, really). Besides, I don't think I'll be seeing these vets charge too often into close combat. Vets they may be, but they're still WS3 S3 T3 humans who'd get a lot more done by shooting things up.

I was somewhat adverse towards taking the plasma gun initially, but fluff-wise any killteam operating in a Space Hulk needs something to breach bulkheads. Originally that was what the melta was for, but since I'm suffering a meltagun shortage and I had the points to spare, I decided to spring for the plasma gun instead, as it can fill the same role both fluff-wise and combat-wise (with more shots to boot).

So far, I might spring for Elysian heads with respirators to complete the whole 'operating in vacuum environments' look. Or would it be cheaper to just greenstuff facemasks onto the existing Cadian heads?
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 13:49   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
At first I was also pondering the shotgun vs lasgun question, but once Sgt Bastonne came into the equation I decided to stick with lasguns, since FRFSRF doesn't work the the good old shotties (shame, really). Besides, I don't think I'll be seeing these vets charge too often into close combat. Vets they may be, but they're still WS3 S3 T3 humans who'd get a lot more done by shooting things up.

I was somewhat adverse towards taking the plasma gun initially, but fluff-wise any killteam operating in a Space Hulk needs something to breach bulkheads. Originally that was what the melta was for, but since I'm suffering a meltagun shortage and I had the points to spare, I decided to spring for the plasma gun instead, as it can fill the same role both fluff-wise and combat-wise (with more shots to boot).

So far, I might spring for Elysian heads with respirators to complete the whole 'operating in vacuum environments' look. Or would it be cheaper to just greenstuff facemasks onto the existing Cadian heads?
It would be a little bit cheaper to go with molding facemasks onto the Cadian heads, but unless you're really good at it, you kinda lose that professional air. The Elysian Respirator heads aren't that expensive (well, to me anyway) so they're definitely worth the buy. Overall, Greenstuff lets you customize to the max.
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 15:24   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

If you've ever seen the new Cadian Command Squad, they come with respirators as well. I believe there is five per box. That's definitely an option if you're looking to model the "tough as nails" Cadian with a visor and respirator.
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 15:38   #8 (permalink)
Zen
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
I was somewhat adverse towards taking the plasma gun initially, but fluff-wise any killteam operating in a Space Hulk needs something to breach bulkheads. Originally that was what the melta was for, but since I'm suffering a meltagun shortage and I had the points to spare, I decided to spring for the plasma gun instead, as it can fill the same role both fluff-wise and combat-wise (with more shots to boot).
Meltabombs can do that and I'm 100% sure there was a doctrine for that.
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 15:50   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Veterans, Doctrines and Killteams, oh my! (this is a question)

Granted, there is the Demolitions doctrine that gives my squad melta bombs and a demo charge but it also means I have no excuse to take a melta/plasma gun :P, and also takes away my precious carapace armor due to points limitations.

Thanks for the heads up about the Cadian Command Squad, AC. Personally, it's annoying for me to already be planning all this yet still not have a model to my name. T-T I'll definitely be having a good look at all my sprues and the kitbashing possibilities once I get my hands on them, oh yesss...
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