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infantry and how to use them
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 23:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default infantry and how to use them

Hello, many guard players out there have fallen under the swoon that, "Basic guard infantry are terrible".
Wrong! As Lord Solar Macharis said, "Never dig in, you'll be outmaneuvered. Never charge the enemy without adequate support." That was the gist of it. Basically, Guard aren't real heavy on either, so people rely on tanks a lot more. But here's a way to do both- I call it, "the mechanized and the armored BlitzKrieg".

In world War II, the German infantry would rush in as air planes gave them support. In football (the American version) blitz is when one team goes at an all-out rush. MY plan is:

Have 3 chimeras with each 10 guardsmen inside.

Have 3 leman russ tanks in front of those for support.

Now you can make as many of those units as you want, but don't separate them.


Have Valkyries flying over head giving that unit of 3 tanks and 3 chimeras support.



This has worked very well against mediocre-heavily armored troops (space marines, Tau) but toherwise, for orks and Tyranids, you'll have tothe conventional defense way.

This tactic, I have found, is good against space marines and other mediorceely armored troops.
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 08:06   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

Not all Blitzkrieg are successful, look at the Eastern Front for an example.

Hitler thought he would take Moscow before Christmas, but he pushed too far to lack any reserves and/or supplies to be able to delivered to the frontline to bolster any losses. Or look at Napoleon for an example as well.

Blitzkrieg would only take you so far and not all strategies would work. Being totally mechanized can suffer greatly if losing your ability to traverse and out-maneuver your opponent. Blitz worked perfectly in the early part of the war due to the inability to actually hold out against fast moving shock troops and especially how France,Netherlands Belgium and all the countries were not anticipated at the assault. (Note: Sure the French had a significant army to defend against the Germans, but they lack any speedy approach and information to deal with such offenses)

Your strategy can be costly if the enemy had clear sights and are already expected to be rushed. IG,Tau,Space Marines and Chaos can definitely easily hold out against that sort. Chimeras And Leman Russ cannot fully work together in this scenario without truly moving together in cohesion. You lack the element of surprise on the tabletop itself is already a big loss to what truly is a Blitzkrieg tactic.

True, the Germans had close knitted support from both air and artillery. They worked very closely together to quickly overcome any obstacles and they wouldn't waste time laying sieges and rather decimate defense line or outflanking them to take bigger targets. I doubt Guardsman can be equal to what the Germans can do during WW2. They're both rigorously trained and know how to execute battle formations easily without second thoughts. Skirmishes usually had more numbered men and with only 10 men per Chimera loses its staunch offensive power, remember that infantries win the war, tanks can only do as much to what a real combat veteran can do.

If you insisted on employing Blitzkrieg, you must be prepared for a few outcomes.

-Stubborn defenses, i.e Siege of Sevastopol and Siege of Stalingrad.

-Overprepared Armies, i.e Tau with more Broadsides than you can imagine or Orks with many gun batteries.

-Losing your cohesion due to unforeseen circumstances, i.e Losing 3 Transports in one turn.

These are more severe issues to Blitzkrieg. Another strategy I recommend is, since you are spearheading your assault, that leaves you with another option, artillery. Mobile artillery would be a more ideal to trail alongside your armor. Your Valks can easily get shot down unless you use it last as a surprise hammer or using artillery to easily bombard any rigid defense line.

You need more Chimeras than Tanks. No Panzergrenadiers are left without transport, well, unless they lose it.
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 09:51   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

The problem with moving in such a rigid formation as you've described are twofold. While the LRBTs would provide a nice intimidating wall of front AV14, the Lumbering Behemoth rule limits the speed of the whole rush, which is contrary to the idea of blitzkrieg (lightning assault). The chances of rolling 6s for all three LRBTs moving at cruising speed are 1/216, while the chances of even one of them rolling a 1 is 25/216 (1/6 * 5/6 * 5/6, my mathhammer might be a bit off here). To maintain formation, you'll have to move everything at the pace of the slowest LRBT, and that means you'll rarely be able to move everything at 12" per turn.

It gets worse if you're impeded by terrain, which forces you to either break formation or take dangerous terrain tests, posing the risk of crippling the assault before it even gets anywhere. A clear straight line carries its own hazards; the enemy can be firing at you from Turn 1, or simply divide their forces sideways and catch you in a pincer formation when you arrive. The terrain limiting your movement will let the opponent easily predict your angle of advance and outmanoeuver you. Roads? Situational, and even more predictable.

The formation is also vulnerable to assaulting infiltrators or jump infantry, or even deepstriking anti-tank units (like Oblits), which most races have some form of. Once any of your vehicles come under assault, you're effectively screwed. Chimeras are only marginally effective against infantry, the LRBTs won't be able to fire due to fear of scattering and causing friendly fire in such a close range, and disembarking the infantry squads is hardly an option because they'll get slaughtered in melee.

Then there's the issue of price. Assuming the use of basic LRBTs, Chimeras and infantry squads (meaning you have PCSs lying around elsewhere, but their costs aren't factored into this), the formation will cost a total of 755 points. So how many of these can you really have? You can't even fit two of them into a 1500-point army, it's possible in 1750 but will leave you with a dangerously unprotected HQ, and any more than that and we might as well be playing Apoc, for which you can expect to see massive pie plates just waiting to ruin your day.

Rigid tight-knit formations are, simply put, a deliberate handicap on one's own army. Spreading out your mechanized forces increases your effective field of view, protects you from flanking attempts, reduces the devastating effect of enemy close-combat units and blast templates, forces the enemy to divide their fire, and allows you to navigate terrain more effectively and use it to gain cover saves. Having 6 vehicles within 6 inches of each other as your tactic suggests would bring tears of joy to any opponent with anti-tank pie plates (or Emperor forbid, a Deathstrike).
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 10:08   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetrino
The chances of rolling 6s for all three LRBTs moving at cruising speed are 1/216, while the chances of even one of them rolling a 1 is 25/216 (1/6 * 5/6 * 5/6, my mathhammer might be a bit off here).
Whilst the first is correct, the second one isn't. The chances of rolling at least one 1 is the same as 1 - (the chances of rolling no 1s), the latter of which is 5/6 * 5/6 * 5/6. So, rolling at least one 1 has a chance of 1 - 125/216 = 1 - 0.579 (3sf) = 0.421 (3sf).

So, in actuality, the chances of rolling at least one 1 in this situation is 42.1% (3sf), much higher than you'd calculated.
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 10:12   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

Ah, thanks. Probability was never my strong point in mathematics. Here's hoping extensive application of mathhammer will change that. :P
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 13:02   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

Another solid post, Tetrino. Have another :cookie:.
Keep it up!
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Old 05 Mar 2010, 17:30   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

While this is a good article... i'll be pedantic and point out that you are incorrect in your historical facts...

The Wehrmacht (WW2 German army), used the Blitzkreig (Lightning war). This required the tanks, possibly mech infantry, and planes utterly destroying any enemy air, mech, or armour capabilities, then the infantry move in and mop up/destroy in detail, what is left behind

Still, your tactic is decent, but how many points is this viable at? 2k+?

EDIT: Yes, looking at it, Blitzkrieg used mech infantry, tanks, and planes to attack quickly and at the enemy's weakest point, then stream through, the enemy had to then make the choice of retreat, regroup, allowing the blitzkrieg to be repeated, or risk being attacked in the rear... the main point is that the Wehrmacht avoided the danger of the enemies prickleyest bits... (that will be spelt wrong i assure you ), take for example, the attack on France, Germany went through the Ardennes, rather than the...maginot line i believe...
If you're wondering why i brought this up... i can't stand historical innacuracy
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Old 06 Mar 2010, 17:32   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

I like the basic concept of this list but I feel the tanks should be toward the rear where they can soften of the enemy firing all guns at once, GW really did make the rules to encourage guard tanks not to move after all. I also feel this Idea may be a little expensive. (point wise)

you are correct Baldrick the Germans did indeed go through the Ardennes, twice actually, once in 1941 and again in 1944.
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Old 07 Mar 2010, 17:40   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldrick


but how many points is this viable at? 2k+?
For one unit group of 3 tanks, chimeras, and guard squads in them will a command squad also in a vehicle is about 1k. So for each unit, about 1000 points. Of course, you dont have to have a command squad for the other units, so you can use extra points for plasma guns, power swords, etc.
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Old 07 Mar 2010, 21:56   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: infantry and how to use them

As has already been said, i can see this set up working OK in an apoc sized game (2500pts or more aside), but then you need to be taking into account the mahoosive templates that will be raining down on them.

The idea of standard 40k is that it would represent a small area of a larger battle (even a skirmish) on a standard 6 foot by 4 foot board, your going to struggle to use this tactic, infact, i rarely even use any transports! Guard for me are a 'sit in and take the flak while we grind them over time through durablity' army than an aggressive 'take the fight to the enemy' army. In my 2000pts list i use infantry to anchor my line and LRBT's to blast the enemy, while a single plattoon outflanks (With alrahem) these serve as a distraction and objective grabbers.

By simply out lasting my opponant, i can win most of the time through sheer weight of numbers!
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