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Are Ogryns worth it?
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Old 21 Feb 2010, 16:53   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Are Ogryns worth it?

I've just stared I.G. and was thinking about using Ogryns, but I don't know how useful they are on the battle field. any information would be great.

my plan would be to buy w.f.b. ogres and convert them. 6 plastic ones for $40 is a lot better than 6 metal ones for $120 :/
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Old 22 Feb 2010, 13:35   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

I know there's at least a half dozen long, drawn out debates on this topic already, so I don't know if the mods are going to favor a revival. I'd recommend doing a search to see what you can see and maybe come back with more specific questions if you don't find what you're looking for.

Here is the latest thread on this topic I found for your assistance: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,83832.0.html
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Old 22 Feb 2010, 15:27   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

Ogryns is not a bad unit at all. The problem with them is that you have a lot of other choices out there. I for one wish they was a troop choice which would allow me to take objectives. For one they can give cover saves to your vehicles since they are so huge.

Also compared to other models in hand to hand they're probably the best in your army. They are tough as bikes and have 3 wounds. It's nice to have a commissar lord attached with a power fist. This would keep thm from running off the board due to shooting and make them a more effective unit.
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 00:05   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

I really like them and I try to take them in every force I can fit them into. I run them at least 5 strong, that way 4 wounds can be allocated to the regular Ogryn first before the Bone 'ead. Also Commissar Yarrack is a great addition to them as his allowing failed re-rolls works on them, unlike the Priests. I then like to cram them all into a Chimera so I can move them across the field quickly. Just make sure that you disembark them before the vehicle moves, even rotates, if you want to charge with them that turn. Other wise they're really hard to get across the field.

Another option is to use them as Anti-charge, holding them behind your units for counter assault. This way they can survive easier as they'll behind a wall of meat while they wait to charge so they'll get a cover save. Not to mention not taking as many wounds will keep them their with their low Ld. But a Commissar can help that with ease.

The Furious Charge USR helps out a bit, as it makes them faster (Though now striking as Guard would normally...) and stronger (Hitting with double the S of a Guardsman). And if they do loose in close combat, Stubborn makes it so they'll always be at their minimum Ld value and never lower.

The Ripper Gun, in my opinion, could use a bit of the older rules for it. Giving it an AP, even one of 6, would make it more desirable to take, and useful. It's a pretty powerful gun as it is, matching the Tau Burst Cannon for shots, strength and range, but lacking the armour punching power. This makes it not good at anything, but it's high rate of fire makes it good for taking out low armoured troops and maybe rear armour on vehicles. You have enough shots, you're bound to roll 6s eventually.

What I really like though is that their a multi-wounded model that can only be instant killed by S10 weapons. Yes, they only have Flak Armour, but this sole fact makes it so they'll survive with most of the squad intact by the time you get there.
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 00:33   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

'Most of the squad intact' is not a reassuring phrase to hear when a 3-man Ogryn squad costs as much as an entire basic infantry platoon (1 PCS + 2 infantry squads).

Granted, they can dish out a considerable amount of pain on the charge (shooting + assault), but that necessitates some highly skillful manoeuvering and/or a Chimera and/or tactical idiocy on your opponent's part to pull off. Factoring in the cost of a Chimera further increases the cost of the whole deal, so much so that it becomes more cost effective to use a large combined squad and a Commissar for tarpitting purposes.

A 5-man Ogryn squad with Chimera is equivalent to a platoon with 4 infantry squads and a Commissar in points cost. 25 S6 attacks (and 15 S5 Ripper gun shots) on the charge as compared to 20-22 S3 attacks (understandably, not all models would enter combat on the charge, this number is for 10 Guardsmen and maybe a Sergeant) that builds up to 48 S3 attacks and 3 S4 attacks, or you could go for a lasgun volley of 36 S3 shots, 72 in rapid fire range, and up to 108 with FRFSRF. For their points cost, Ogryns simply can't match the attack output of other melee-oriented races like Orks or Khornate Chaos.

Stubborn doesn't particularly help either, given the Bone'ead's Ld of 7 which means you'll only be passing morale checks half the time to begin with. On the other hand, the combined infantry + commissar option also has Stubborn, and the commissar's Ld of 9, and they can reroll failed tests at the cost of a sergeant.

And, of course, Ogryns don't count as scoring units.
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 01:28   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

So say you have enough guardsmen and want something instead of ANOTHER platoon...

Ogryns are a great distraction unit. They are also bloody hard to kill... 3 wounds and T5.

I've seen people struggle to kill 3 of the bugger, throw 6 in a chimera and its looking even better.

Or hell, go the brutal option of adding yarrick to a 5 man unit in chimera. Fearless, re rolling hits on a charge... its bloody nice.

Or get straken or creed to give them furious charge (Creed giving a unit of orgyn scout and then furious charge is nasty apparently)
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 01:46   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

Hi Tetrino.
Welcome to the boards! Nice post, here's a :cookie:.
Looking forward to seeing some more good posts from you!

AC
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 02:42   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

well, after talking to the guys at my local store I decided to go ahead with it.
and here they are: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...c,93845.0.html
I do plan to get a chimera, and just give it extra armor, and get the 6 man team to the enemy as fast as possible.
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 02:55   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

I think highly relevant is also your armies overall focus. What is vital to always remember that with selecting a uni, say Ogryns, the costs associated for that choice INCLUDE the opportunity cost of not having picked another unit. The point being that for each Ogryn you pick, it means another unit cant be picked.

The usefullness of many units is also dependent on the role you plan for them. Therefore each uni has in a sense a rather flexible "value." Depending on the type of army you want to play, Ogryns can be very valuable or less so. So before you decide to pick or not pick the Ogryns I think you should consider what has to be foregone to have them, and whether or not the uni that is foregone may in fact have more value.

Like what Tetrino said, you can have X amounts of infantry platoons in the place of the Ogryn squad. So in your eyes which is more valuable? If you are going to be playing a gunline sort of army, perhaps the infantry squads would be more valuable, however playing a more mobile army where there is a niche role for the Ogryns, they become more valuable.

My two cents
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Old 04 Mar 2010, 03:12   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Are Ogryns worth it?

You can take a greyknight and attach him to the squad or an elite inquisitor.
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